Unsolved Murders | Missing People Canada

Other Topics => Solved Cases => Topic started by: Chris on April 28, 2007, 07:44:51 AM

Title: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Chris on April 28, 2007, 07:44:51 AM
ON SEPTEMBER 24, 1975, ELEVEN YEAR OLD KATHRYN-MARY HERBERT OF ABBOTSFORD, BRITISH COLUMBIA, CANADA WAS ABDUCTED ON HER WAY HOME FROM A FRIEND'S.
HER DECOMPOSED BODY WAS FOUND ON NOVEMBER 17,1975 IN THE MATSQUI AREA,

THE PRIME SUSPECT IN THIS CASE IS A CONVICTED RAPIST, BOTH BEFORE AND AFTER.  HE IS NOW FREE AND HAS NEVER BEEN CHARGED.

http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/childrenoftheheavens/heavensangelskathrynmaryherbert.html

IF ANYONE HAS ANY IDEA FOR SOLVING THIS OR
KNOWLEDGE DIRECTLY INVOLVING THIS OR ANY
OTHER UNSOLVED MURDER IN THE FRASER VALLEY/KAMLOOPS AREAS, PLEASE CONTACT SGT PAUL BRIGGS AT THE ABBOTSFORD POLICE AT 1.604.859.5225

P.S. This crime may be related to the murder of THERESA HILDEBRANDT in 1976


Watch the CBC docmentary here:
http://www.vuvox.com/collage/detail/011d0ab31c
Title: Re: Kathryn Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Chris on September 17, 2007, 02:08:39 AM
Makes you wonder how many people that guy who police now believe was Stoppels real killer (1981) who commited suicide? Even have to wonder about Kelly in Standard AB.
Title: Re: Kathryn Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Chris on December 09, 2007, 05:48:58 PM
From Kindheart


http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cold_case/herbert_e.htm

This case on now the RCMP cold case website.

Name: Homicide of Kathryn-Mary HERBERT (SUTTON)

Location: Abbotsford, British Columbia

Details: On September 24th, 1975, the mother of 11 year old Kathryn-Mary HERBERT, reported her daughter missing to the Abbotsford Police Department. Ms. HERBERT was last known to be alive on September 24th, 1975 at around 8:50 pm while walking home along a rural road near 1777 Townline Road, Abbotsford, B.C. after she was dropped off by a friend.

On November 17th, 1975, the body of Kathryn-Mary HERBERT was found in a rural undeveloped area of the Matsqui Indian Reserve, Matsqui, B.C.

Contact: If you have any information about this case, please contact Sgt. Laura Livingstone, E-Division (British Columbia) Major Crime Section, at 1-877-543-4822 or Crime Stoppers 1-800-222-8477.

File: Abbotsford Police Department File #1975-7072
  E-Division Major Crime Section File #2004E-363 
Title: Re: Kathryn Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Chris on December 11, 2007, 12:02:33 AM
That is so sad. I hope that for the Mothers sake this case gets solved. It must be horrible to lose a child but even worse to not know who murdered her. Maybe we should add a top 10 cases list on this site and list them prominantly on this site.
Title: Re: Kathryn Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Carol-Lynn on December 11, 2007, 09:58:13 AM
Yes the babys first that is something that really pulls at my heart.I know if I was a mother of a child who was taken from me raped and murderd I would never stop on tell the person who did this to my child was found.

I have seen first hand what some of the Mothers have gone thought only to have Doctors givnging them more and more pain killers on tell they can't even think for themselfs anymore trying to kill the pain of there lost loved one,And then them selfs become lost in a world of pill bottles and lost memeries. :'(
Title: Re: Kathryn Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Chris on December 11, 2007, 03:44:42 PM
OK, I will work on this tonightl. Good idea, children first!
Title: Re: Kathryn Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Chris on December 12, 2007, 12:05:02 AM
From Kindheart
Quote
OK, I will work on this tonightl. Good idea, children first!
I totally am in support. I would also like to see more info on missing men and am adding everyday to my database on this.
We have 8000 missing in our country and 400 are unident HR.
Lots of work to do and share! I have heard others express frustration over the gender bias and see their concerns.

Title: Re: Kathryn Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: notmissing89 on March 11, 2008, 10:58:37 PM
What is an STW?
I cannot imagine the pain that mother is going through...first have her son drown one year...then have her daughter kidnapped and murdered the next year..then have her only child left commit suicide only a few years later...I wouldnt be sane ever again if only my daughter died...let alone all 3 kids 2 of them not even teens yet.
I wonder if these murderers and rapists know the pain they cause everyone?What drives someone to do something so horriffic to someone so little and precious?It makes me SICK :'(
Title: Re: Kathryn Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Chris on March 11, 2008, 11:21:03 PM
Hi notmissing89,

A STW is a sex trade worker.

Quote
I wonder if these murderers and rapists know the pain they cause everyone?

No, I think most could care less. Like pedophiles, they are only concerned with finding another victim, they do not feel anything for the victims they leave behind. PRetty sad, I too feel horrible for that mother.
Title: Re: Kathryn Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: capeheart on September 07, 2008, 04:38:36 PM
I came across Kathryn Mary's unsolved tragic murder on another site and checked to see if it was here. Her mom has had so much grief and tragedy in her life, more then any one person should have to bear. My prayers and thoughts go to her on this day. This monster that raped and killed Kathryn Mary, I cannot believe that he is free. He has done other crimes and this is what has happened, well if anything crys for justice, this does. Why would this person be free to commit such heinous crimes. There are many unsolved murders of young persons on the west coast and also missing persons, they could be connected to this pervert. I hope the police know of his whereabouts and keep a close eye on what he is up to. No child is safe from harm when those perverted people are walking the streets. We must all be sure to keep an eye on the children and make sure they don't walk alone. Prayers to her mom and family. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Kathryn Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: D1 on September 08, 2008, 11:34:25 PM
Yaa, pretty suspicious. So there is a name out there somewhere. A serial rapist. A few more details and maybe this could be solved.
Title: Re: Kathryn Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: D1 on September 09, 2008, 11:56:41 AM
That may be possible, but as Mrs. Greer has indicated, the problem is that the procedure for collecting and analysing the DNA is all controlled by the RCMP. It appears that an effort is being made not to solve this case, indicative of a protected suspect/informant. I think if the name of the alleged suspect could be obtained that may provide links to other crimes and like T. Arnold may uncover a pattern of protection.  Putting two and two together is all we have right now. There is a name out there somewhere, were there anough details left behind to figure out who he was? He apparently did time twice in Matsqui for rape, maybe those dates would coincide with a court record or news story?
Title: Re: Kathryn Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Chris on September 10, 2008, 01:42:15 AM
Quote
for collecting and analysing the DNA is all controlled by the RCMP

Although the administer that, I thought it was up to a court to choose if that gets done. I am pretty certain this can be done with or without RCMP consent. I think the big issue though is getting these tested, it takes 8 months to a few years to test DNA in Canada.
Title: Re: Kathryn Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: waabzy on September 10, 2008, 05:36:36 AM
I am familiar with this case and my heart aches for the family of this young girl.

I however have some questions:
1) Why did this mother allow a girl dating a convicted sexual offender to live in her home when she had small children? Was this guy ever at her house?
2) Kathryn Mary was not sexually assaulted. She was beaten to death and not even really buried but hidden under some wood. It seems to me that a serial killer or one who had gone on a hunt for a young child to kill would have had his "fun" with her first and at least made an attempt to hide her little body????  Why would someone beat a young girl to death? This is a sign of anger, great anger at the victim. She was not raped, stabbed or shot or strangled. She was beaten to death. This does not fit the norm for murders of young children unless it is usually family related ( mother or father or sibling) from my research.
3) Her older brother suicided years later, apparently suffering from schizophrenia. Is it possible that he was sent to find her when she did not return home when she was supposed to and was angry at her for having to go look for her and ended up beating her himself?
The mother states that her son suicided because he felt so hopeless that he was unable to see his sister's murder solved. Is it possible that he was feeling guilt over her death? Whatever happened to the letter written to her after her death? The details of that letter have never been  published.
I don't say this to be cruel but it IS possible. Long before those are diagnosed with schizophrenia, there are signs. Perhaps this young man resented her, she being the only girl in this family, the princess in her mother's eyes and maybe this kid resented having to take care of her and his other siblings?
Although I have little faith in most RCMP detachments, USUALLY when it involves the death of an innocent caucasian child they DO act. Why is it in this case they seem to have not acted?...lost evidence??????.... etc.??????



Just a thought.
Title: Re: Kathryn Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Chris on September 11, 2008, 12:09:45 AM
Wow good questions. Yes, pedophiles and serial killers definetly would do more. This does seem like an odd case.
Title: Re: Kathryn Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: capeheart on November 29, 2008, 10:07:42 PM
Some of this information sounds a little close to home for what happened To Kathryn Mary. More investigation close to home should take place and the person or persons who committed this crime should be brought to justice. When police have a gut feeling, why don't they just get in there and go for the gold. Too much time passes and it is unlikely that Kathryn's murder will ever be solved. We need more women to be Police Chief's in Canada. I am not a man hater, but they just don't have the intuition that women have. Come on let us get this crime solved, even after all this time let us get it solved and have justice for this child Kathryn Mary Herbert, RIP Kathryn. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Chris on October 30, 2009, 09:08:57 AM
Watch the documentary here:
http://www.vuvox.com/collage/detail/011d0ab31c
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: solvy on October 30, 2009, 11:34:17 AM
thanks chris,   that was a good clip, lots of info well presented.  Very interesting about lost letters, one strong suspect, and yet no one charged.  Must go check out sites for the other posssible victims.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: D1 on October 30, 2009, 01:53:31 PM
Very well done, great detail, many interesting leads. So who is the suspect no one is naming? A convicted sex offender, implicated in other murders by way of circumstance; one being Monica Jack in which Clifford Olson was once named as a possible suspect. Did he live in Abbotsford back then?
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: waabzy on October 30, 2009, 05:12:03 PM
I don't know the name of the person of interest but remember kathy's mom saying a few years ago she was going to go visit him. 
Whomever he is he was a known sex offender.  But again there are some weird things with this story.  A convicted sex offender was dating a girl living with them at the time - maybe this fact was not known prior to Kathy's disappearance.  But this child was not sexually assaulted.  She was beaten to death which indicates rage. Who could hate a small child this much to beat her to death.  Also the mom reports that  in those days" murder victims had to be buried in the clothes they died in. I have yet to find any information to verify this but that seems wrong.  Also her shallow grave was pretty simple  no indication by that that whomever buried her had much experience in  burying people so I question whether it could have been a serial killer at all.  Its too personal. 
Its just horrible tht this case remain unsolved after all these years.
Very well done, great detail, many interesting leads. So who is the suspect no one is naming? A convicted sex offender, implicated in other murders by way of circumstance; one being Monica Jack in which Clifford Olson was once named as a possible suspect. Did he live in Abbotsford back then?
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: D1 on October 30, 2009, 06:04:05 PM
yes why? why? why? Seems everyone who has looked into this has come up with the same name. Yet nothing more is being said about him and nothing is being done.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Chris on October 30, 2009, 09:51:34 PM
Wow did anyone get to see the documentary?

The man, the main suspect is also a suspect in 2 other murders in the area in the late 1970's.

He is now somewhere in western Canada.

Remember, there was also a string of murders of simular aged girls in 1976\77 west of calgary and 1981 in Standard Alberta.

According to the documentary, the mans name was published in the origincal news accounts in the 70's.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Sleuth on October 31, 2009, 12:27:49 AM
It always, always bothers me when young children are murdered and their killer(s) are not found. That is so wrong. If someone knows something, anything, even if it seems insignificant, but bothers you for some reason, please do the right thing and come forward with what you know. Please help a family find justice.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: capeheart on November 02, 2009, 07:00:20 PM
Oh, this is unreal this documentary. All of these police officers should not get their pensions. These people, what were they doing, they certainly were not doing their jobs. And why would they not want to solve a case of a young girl that was murdered. Why, especially when he could be a serial killer. Imagine, they buried her clothes with her, give me a break. Were they just dumb, didn't care. Especially having a suspect, they could have had this case solved in weeks. I just feel like Kathryn's mother feels, hound them until she goes to the grave to take this individual to court. This man admits to talking with her and the police just let him get away with murder. These individuals who investigated this case make me sick. And to think that two letters were written to the RCMP and they lost them, well they should be fired. How sloppy is that, what in the heck do they think is important, if not solving the murder of an 11 year old. To have such a clue in solving the case, these two letters and losing them, I just can't believe it. It is the sloppiest form of investigation I have ever seen on any true crime show. God bless her mom and my prayers go out to her. I hope that this person is charged with the murder of this young lady. A disgusting display of police work, it makes me sick to my stomach. ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Lillie on December 01, 2009, 08:57:30 AM
Actually, the two letters were written to Kathryn-Mary after her death. The police didn't take them to her mom (ME) to see if I could identify the author. Instead, they were sent to RCMP lab where they were lost. They wrote to me telling me they hoped I had closure knowing they couldn't find them.
Police have tried to cover up all of their mistakes all along. I have known only two officers who really cared about her death. One in the very beginning, (he was one the documentary) and another who took over her case in 1992.
I need to say this,...when my daughter was killed, no one warned anyone in those days about sex offenders. When the girl was dating that waste of skin, I, nor she, had any inkling of what he was.
Another thing I wish to address, are the other remarks made by a former friend on this board...saying things about my son and a bicycle. My son did not own a bicycle. He did not carry his sister some 15 or 20 miles away to dispose of her. He agonized over her death and not being able to solve it, and he died by suicide when he was 21. Her friend doubled her part way home on his bike. Three of my five children have died. I have two remaining sons who moved in with me when their adopted father died to take care of me. I am truly blessed with these sons.
Thank you all for caring.
Shari[/b]
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: D1 on December 01, 2009, 12:26:42 PM
Hi Lillie, we all feel so sorry for what has happened to you and your family and wish we could do more to help. What the police have done is inexcusable. Don't worry, the story about your son fell on deaf ears around here but the record has been set straight.

I have long wondered who that "waste of skin"may be. I read that he may be involved in other similar crimes and wonder who those victims were. I wonder if he is still incarcerated. Lastly, I wonder why no one names this waste of skin?
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Lillie on December 01, 2009, 06:30:39 PM
There is nothing I would like better then to name names...but, I cannot. I could be sued big time for doing that. I just do not have the funds to ward off a law suit.
As for the police. I wish I could say they are doing their jobs, but, they have had leads for over two years they have done nothing about. What Canada needs is for each province to have a panel that over sees police work. The panel should be made up of nonpolitical members. Probably, regular people who have no designs on political aspirations.
As it stands now...it is the LAW that police are accountable to no one for their method of doing or in this case NOT doing their JOBS.
Thanks for your kind words
Shari
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: D1 on December 01, 2009, 08:02:35 PM
I completely agree, and I believe more and more people are recognizing the same..
Quote
What Canada needs is for each province to have a panel that over sees police work. The panel should be made up of nonpolitical members. Probably, regular people who have no designs on political aspirations.

For now, we are as close to being that panel as there is. No one agrees with how this has and is being handled, it has gone on far too long..Perhaps there is more than one way to skin this cat..Is his a name we would recognize from other crimes or some publicity?
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Lillie on December 01, 2009, 08:35:59 PM
Hi...you said "Is his a name we would recognize from other crimes or some publicity?"
Perhaps, because he is a convicted sex offender. However, dropping his name in here or anywhere for that matter would be against the law...criminals have more rights then victims and their families.
Shari
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: D1 on December 01, 2009, 09:29:43 PM
I know, it's awful how many rights the perpetrators have in this country. In the U.S. you can click on a website map and it will show where all the sex offenders live in your neighborhood.

Some individuals here believe that when our children are being killed the laws have to be stretched a little. Some people are willing to risk the consequences. This guy for instance runs a private online sex offender registry. Perhaps this "waste of skin" is already on there? Once published he is open territory.
http://www.rwnicholson.com/Sex%20Offenders.htm (http://www.rwnicholson.com/Sex%20Offenders.htm)

I'm not suggesting you post the name, I completely understand, but maybe there are some other options worth exploring yet. I'm for whatever it takes to catch this guy and shut him down forever. Hopefully that will happen yet.

Shari, I remember watching a news program in Vancouver quite a few years back running the story of a woman who had collected a whole scrap book full of sex offender cases heard in the courts. Would that have been you? ..
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Chris on December 02, 2009, 03:02:10 AM
Shari I am so sorry about your daughter and I too am shocked and saddened by how badly this case was messed up.

It was hard to watch that documentary. To know there was probably a person out there killing at will and no one got him. It is amazing.

Without naming names, is there a particular suspect that you believe is the right one?

Thank you,

Chris
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: capeheart on December 02, 2009, 08:16:45 PM
Shari, my thoughts are with you also. I have never heard or saw such a mess of a serious crime as this, which should have had every known police officer in the area dedicated to solving this case. I just couldn't believe the careless attitude in speaking of lost documents and Exhibits. And the fact that there is a suspect in mind that might have committed this crime is even more absurd. God bless and I truly hope that someday there will be an end to this and the crime will be solved. 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Alder on December 02, 2009, 11:45:03 PM
Shari,  I'm so very sorry about your daughter and the terrible way this case was handled.  As for the suspect, since he had an actual conviction as a sexual offender in some other case, is this not information that can be publicly mentioned?  I mean, why not start a thread on that character with information based on court records or news articles.  I thought such records are as public as can be.  Let's put his picture there too.  Seems to me that this is done in many other instances in other threads on this website.  Of course, I would not suggest doing anything that would jeopardize the case or your safety.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Lillie on December 04, 2009, 04:03:55 PM
Thank you all for your support. I went to the sex offender page provided here and his name is not there. But, so too, is not the name of former Canadian Premier Crietien's son. It is my belief that because of Crietien's son, we have these inadequate laws to protect our children and women from these wastes of skin.
In answer to the question about the sex offender articals, no it was not me. I used to collect all of that stuff and it became so painful for me I had to stop.
I have a call into Ottawa, actually several calls and to date have not heard back from them. Sadly, members of parliament think they are more important then God and so the public does not have access to them. I will keep bugging until they return my call.
Thanks
Shari
PS sorry...in answer to the suggestion I reveal the name of the main suspect because he has former convictions...I cannot name him as a suspect in Kath's case.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: D1 on December 04, 2009, 07:23:13 PM
I understand why it is not in your best interests to reveal the name of the suspect here. Maybe you have even had threats or this person has money and influence, whatever, that's your business. Perhaps he could just be reported to the private sex offender registry website for now. There is no need to mention the connections to Katheryn, just the straight factual evidence from the prior conviction would suffice. At least anyone with suspicions who checks up on him now would know to keep their children away.

Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Lillie on December 07, 2009, 05:58:29 PM
I am sorry not to have answered sooner..I have not been threatened in any way by this person (at least not to my knowledge). If I had the facts, names, dates, charges..I would submit his name so fast his head would spin. But, none were ever made clear to me.
I wish I could, but, as it stands, I cannot.
Love
Shari
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Sleuth on December 10, 2009, 12:00:26 AM
There is nothing I would like better then to name names...but, I cannot. I could be sued big time for doing that. I just do not have the funds to ward off a law suit.

Hi Shari, thank you for your postings, and straightening out misconception. My heart goes out to you. Actually you can name names, as long as it is formed in a question with a question mark at the end. Shari, please PM me. Thanks.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: solvy on December 10, 2009, 12:30:18 AM
Hi Lilli,  So glad you joined us! 

I was reading "missing Pieces" dated 2006.  You gave alot of information , and said police have alot more we are not priviledged to.  I just cannot understand how this is not solvable. With the mistakes that were made, one would think the police did not want it solved!!

Just a quick question about the lost letters.  Were they addressed to kathryn-Mary at her home , or to the rcmp at their bldg.    Did  rcmp get them from your mailbox?
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Lillie on December 10, 2009, 04:45:26 PM
They were addressed to her.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: solvy on December 12, 2009, 01:42:42 PM
Thanks for the quick reply Lillie.  The person who delivered the letters to the rcmp, do you know who that is?  I wonder why they didn't give them to you first?  Unless they were sure there was a confession in them and didn't want you to view it!
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Lillie on December 14, 2009, 04:18:16 AM
They gave them to the Abbotsford Police, who then sent them to the RCMP 'E' Division lab. They lost the letters.
I just have to think the police were stupid in their handling of the letters. Had they brought them to me, I may have been able to identify the author.
And, the Abby cops do not remember who brought the letters in.
And, the cold squad has had information for over two years they have not acted on!!!! I cannot get a response from them as to why not...IDIOTS!!!!
Shari
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Chris on December 14, 2009, 04:25:22 AM
That letter is very important. No one sends letters like that except serial killers or people trying to trick the police.

With any luck, they can find that letter somehow. I'm leaning towards believing it was a diversion. It's hard to believe no one can remember who brought it in, that is just plain weird.

I do hope, these past 2 years, the police are acting on your information and will update you soon.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: lostlinganer on December 14, 2009, 04:50:01 PM
sorry; I find it hard to believe mail addressed to someone who was murdered, was just "misplaced" causing the mail to disappear.  Anything and everything could be important to someone trying to figure out who could have motive and opportunity to do this.  ....such recent mail would be just as important as any other piece of evidence. >:(
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: solvy on December 14, 2009, 09:18:02 PM
Having turned things into the police several times myself I find it pretty lame for them to say they don't remember who gave them the letters. 

I had to give name,address and phone # before I could leave the items with them.

There is something hinkey going on here for sure.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: D1 on December 14, 2009, 10:25:14 PM
Too many mistakes and too many years passing with nothing being done?? All too suspect for me. This kind of stuff just doesn't happen this way unless someone wants it to. This was the murder of an innocent young girl, not just a run of the mill burglary investigation. I call B.S. This is all very reminiscent of what went on with RCMP informant Terry Arnold during his murder spree. Those letters aren't lost, they are being hidden.
see- http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3056.0.html (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3056.0.html)
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Lillie on December 15, 2009, 03:03:31 PM
Sadly. this was in 1980 when they got the letters (2)....and, were they as diligent then as they are today?? I just don't know. I have often wondered if a cop was involved because all of the original files also went missing. The cop who took over in 1992 had to rebuild the files from scratch. All that they had to go on were the crime scene photos.
I just wrote a nasty email to the cop in charge of her case now...I am tired of being walked on by these so called public servants!!
Thanks to you all for caring.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Lillie on December 17, 2009, 04:35:35 AM
Actually I CANNOT SAY WHO THE COP MAY BE BECAUSE I DO NOT KNOW SORRY MY KEYBOARD IS GOING WONKY AGAIN
IDO HAVE A PI who works for free on her case.
Thanks for caring.
Shari
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: D1 on December 18, 2009, 12:18:56 AM
For most of us its pretty hard to believe that this sort of stuff goes on. Its just natural to assume that everything humanly possible is being done when it comes to investigating the murder of a child. I am sickened to have found that not to be true. How can this sort of thing even be allowed to happen?
Quote
I have often wondered if a cop was involved because all of the original files also went missing.

I am left to assume, someone has deliberately obstructed this investigation and it is likely due to the suspect having been granted protected informant or agent status.

Lillie. We are all at a loss as to what anyone can do under these circumstances. I still believe that if we had a name to work with, old reports could still be found and a trail of evidence may be uncovered. Then it would be legal for us to post and search for additional information. Somehow I still think it could and should be done. Maybe start by asking the guy at the pedophile registry to run the name and see if he can find any reports. There is nothing to stop you from privately asking around for info, you don't have to post the name unless someone finds an old news report, then..well who knows..
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: solvy on December 18, 2009, 12:02:34 PM

D1  As we know from the cases involving Terry Arnold, the coverup is still going on even after his supposed death. It is doubtful anything can be found on this suspect unless someone has kept a hard copy of a news clipping.  I too would like to know if he is being "watched", but it is doubtful as he's not even in this province now.

Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Lillie on December 24, 2009, 05:08:10 AM
I just want to wish each and every one of you a very Happy Christmas. And, if I may add, that all of your dreams are realized in the New Year.
Love and Prayers
Shari
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Im_new_here2 on January 25, 2010, 12:51:54 AM
wow that is a very touching story  about little kathryn mary. so so sad..I can not fathom the restraint u keep lillie from not saying his name to the public and to just let loose with the details i feel for you this is terrible .I wonder couldn't you tell us a theory as far as i know anyone can say anything they want when its just a theory ..I am pretty sure i get the jest of the suspect or who people thisk it could be so on a different note who was the daughter dating back in 75 out of curriositty cant hurt to say who she was dating im sure she had more then just one bf ... 
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Lillie on January 25, 2010, 12:59:41 AM
Kath was not dating anyone. She was 11 years old. I had taken a girl in who was thrown out of her parents home. She was the one dating.
I would give out the name in a heart beat but, because it could comprimise the case, I cannot.
Love
Shari
PS
Thanks so much for your kind words.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: CarolEOlden on September 24, 2010, 07:00:00 PM
I just started reading about this case this past week. Since we have had the same problem with unsolved homicides on our reservation by  a group of people who are connected with supposedly investigating illegal drug use as defendants on court cases  and crooked law enforcement that keep making us pay to investigate and turn in their defendants' drug contacts instead of just relying on the DEA, and keep robbing and murdering members of our family pretending that they are someone to investigate for illegal activity instead of themselves. Tribal Law enforcement and tribal council are at times impossible to deal with as we are considered as tribal members or decendants and elderly and handicapped  less important to protect than cigarette smuggling or drug trafficking because we don't make money for them like those activities do. Our grandmother's grave was robbed on the Yakama reservation in 2006 by a group of meth addicts and their friends who wanted to pretend to be tribal members in order to try to get free health care services and our damage claims as Cascade Chinooks for sites inundated by the Bonneville Dam which had not been settled since the 1930s.They raped her corpse and rode around in a car with it taking it from place to place pretending to be our grandfather taking her out for an outing as an elder and tried to bill Sr.citizens services for providing transportation to and from the graveyard for her as an elder of our tribe, who had died in 1973. Her corpse was reevaluated after it was returned after discovering that her grave had been tampered with to discover that she had died in 1973 of agricultural chemical poisoning which did not appear to be an accident. Whatever lurks in the minds of persons who do these things, the RCMP and Dept of Justice should work together to apprehend them and not excuse the crimes based on someone 's position in life being more important than their victims' life to obstruct investigations and have justice in these cases.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: CarolEOlden on September 26, 2010, 06:42:16 PM
I wanted to add to her mother who lost all her children due to accidents or violence that my heart goes out to her and to anyone who experiences these type of losses, as that is not what the Creator had in mind for our lives. Mygrandmother who died meant the world to me as she looked out for all of us as her grandchildren, and became a widow due to gun violence and the shooting death of our grandfather in the 60s, which I found out was due to a gang of heroin traffickers who ganged up on him and drugged me with the intent to kidnap me. Our grandfather was found dead on the steps of our barn a gunshot victim, and as a result our grandmother lost her cattle ranch and farming operations as a tribal member, and we all lost our home, as we lived with our grandparents.She later remarried, only to be the victim of the situation I described earlier.
For years members of our family were misdiagnosed by medical personnel and told whatever we went through was not real or did not happen when it did, and drugged and maimed by the psychiatric profession instead of being listened to, and their group apprehended before they killed again. Due to the courage of one group of people who worked hard to correct mistakes in the psychiatrict profession, our family members' misdiagnoses were corrected to show that we were the victims of a violent cult who killed to obtain our identities and property to live off of.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: D1 on November 30, 2010, 06:32:00 PM
Those are some disturbing stories but more suited to their own thread than just here. In regard to not wanting to name the suspect in this little girls murder, I would like to point out what another family in a similar situation is doing. The legality issue may not be all it seems, maybe someone has scared or bluffed you into this belief Lillie?
from Sherrie Mclaughlin
http://www.sherrimclaughlin.info/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=66:suspect-in-kamloops-cold-case-has-a-long-history-of-violent-attacks-on-women&catid=36:updates&Itemid=2 (http://www.sherrimclaughlin.info/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=66:suspect-in-kamloops-cold-case-has-a-long-history-of-violent-attacks-on-women&catid=36:updates&Itemid=2)
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Lillie on December 05, 2010, 11:35:48 PM
Hi Sherrie,
Not scared babe. I have already told more then I should have. But, I leave myself open to a lawsuit if I name names.
Thanks for caring
Love
Shari aka Lillie
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Sleuth on December 05, 2010, 11:40:21 PM
Lillie, we all care about you and Kathryn-Mary. You and Kathryn-Mary are in my thoughts. Any updates that you can tell us about or feel comfortable in sharing with us?
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: D1 on December 06, 2010, 01:08:49 AM
I know Shari, just had to check again...probably will next year too..
Never know, you may find someway someday..
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Lillie on December 15, 2010, 02:36:40 PM
Thank you Carol-Lynn
Love
Shari
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Carol-Lynn on December 16, 2010, 12:35:44 AM
Your Welcome  :-* With much love and respect.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Lillie on May 22, 2011, 09:18:36 PM
I have not posted in a while, but, feel I should update all as much as I can. The RCMP Unsolved Homicide Unit has charge of my baby girl's case. They assure me they are working on it. I do not know anymore then that. I am just her mother.
Love
Shari
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: D1 on May 23, 2011, 02:49:55 AM
Hi again, more than another year has come and gone. Its been a long time for you having to live with this now. I think of you at times, I wonder if anything new has or will ever happen. Do you still have hopes for justice?
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Lillie on May 23, 2011, 03:02:55 AM
There is always hope and I refuse to give up.
Love
Shari
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Lillie on May 23, 2011, 11:21:28 PM
I wrote to you...did you get it?
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Chris on May 24, 2011, 02:54:23 AM
I have not posted in a while, but, feel I should update all as much as I can. The RCMP Unsolved Homicide Unit has charge of my baby girl's case. They assure me they are working on it. I do not know anymore then that. I am just her mother.
Love
Shari

I am glad to hear that and hope they make a break through! It would be so wonderful!
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Lillie on May 24, 2011, 04:26:44 AM
Thanks Chris. I hope so too. But, then again, hope is what I live with daily. Love, Shari
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Lillie on June 11, 2011, 12:36:35 AM
Chris...just so you know..this woman is a bother...and I am asking you to remove this post. I had to ban her from one of my groups because she was telling a member that they should up their dosage of a perscription drug. This is a don't get mad get even post.
Thanks
Shari
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Lillie on June 11, 2011, 09:36:28 PM
Sorry Chris, I meant the post by Wazzby
Thanks
Shari
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: D1 on July 04, 2011, 10:57:36 AM
Hello Lillie,

From Chris- waay back:

Quote
The man, the main suspect is also a suspect in 2 other murders in the area in the late 1970's.

He is now somewhere in western Canada.

Remember, there was also a string of murders of simular aged girls in 1976\77 west of calgary and 1981 in Standard Alberta.

According to the documentary, the mans name was published in the origincal news accounts in the 70's.

As far as you know Lillie, is this accurate that his name was published back in the 70's in regard to additional murders? Is this the same person who was dating the girl who lived at your residence?
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Lillie on July 04, 2011, 11:20:58 AM
I would expect so.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Ex-Canuck on September 29, 2011, 11:14:49 PM
I was looking for info on another old murder in/around Abbotsford, when I ran across this forum. I recognized her name but wasn't sure if it was the same person I remembered, and when I read further it hit me like a slap in the face to learn that both Kathryn and Donnie were gone.  I'm so sorry for your loss.
By the Grace of God, kids don't realize we were not told of horrible ends like this to their friends and classmates. We just thought he moved to another school.

Praying that you'll find some answers, and get closure or comfort even after all these years.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Lillie on September 30, 2011, 12:53:19 AM
Hello,
Thanks so much for your message. My Donnie drown the year before Kath was murdered. Eight years later, Butch took his own life because he felt he failed his sister by not solving her murder.
I am wondering who was the victim you were researching?
Shari
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Ex-Canuck on September 30, 2011, 03:17:35 PM
Don't know the victim, but I went to school (CP) with the murderer. I can't remember his name, but his face was very distinctive. He had burn marks on the left side of his jaw and neck. He would have been within a year or so of my age. 

I was telling someone the other day that over the years, I've gone to school or worked with 2 murderers, and 5 or 6 victims. That's way too many. 1 is too many.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Lillie on September 30, 2011, 04:37:51 PM
Yes it is. Did you know Clifford Olson died today??
Shari
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: D1 on September 30, 2011, 07:20:59 PM
Without a word?
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Lillie on September 30, 2011, 08:18:11 PM
Yes, one of the moms emailed my sister as soon as corrections called her. She said she just felt it is finally over. And, like the burden she has carried for all of these years has been lifted. Oh God, how I wish I could say those words. *SIGH*
Shari
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: debbiec on September 30, 2011, 09:04:28 PM
Hi Lillie,

There is a thread on this site for Clifford Olson. You can find it under serial killers.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Lillie on September 30, 2011, 09:21:03 PM
Thanks will take a look
Shari
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: D1 on October 14, 2011, 08:17:38 PM
Thought of you again Lillie when I read about Sherri McLaughlin's killer. They first named him in the press then the Police confirmed it without ever charging him. His name was published again. Small satisfaction I know but better than nothing and if it had been earlier may have saved a huge amount of grief for the families of later victims. Canadian killers get off far too lightly and then just carry on walking around anonymously amongst us seeking their next victim. Something is wrong with our system.
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=5402.msg72420#msg72420 (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=5402.msg72420#msg72420)
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: D1 on October 15, 2011, 01:26:31 PM
From another recent story- Police and media name suspected killer but only as a person of interest. It was once said that the poi in Kathryn's murder was publicly named in the media years ago. I understand that a lawsuit had been threatened and is of concern now if that name were to be published again. If I understand corectly, the name can be mentioned at least as a poi if he is incarcerated? Does that mean the poi here is not behind bars? Is he still alive? Is he from a wealthy family? Does he have subsequent convictions since Kathryn? Can he be discussed aside from mentioning his name?
from news report -poi named-
http://www.inews880.com/Channels/Reg/LocalNews/story.aspx?ID=1555290 (http://www.inews880.com/Channels/Reg/LocalNews/story.aspx?ID=1555290)
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Lillie on October 15, 2011, 08:27:41 PM
Hello Again. To tell you the truth, I do not remember him being named. Nor, do I remember anything about a lawsuit. I have PTSD and so am not the most reliable in some areas.
I do not know if they would have done that back then because there was no warning about this kind of waste of skin. Today, the police would have been at my door warning me about him. How I wish they had done this before.
There was an arrest for sexual assault, where he beat her and left her for dead. This one was after Kath's murder.
Shari
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: D1 on October 15, 2011, 08:36:59 PM
I'm sorry Shari, I can only imagine what it has been like for you. I did ask you once if you still had hopes for justice and I know you said you do. It's sure a tough job to get there though. Was he convicted of this other assault? Was that in the same town?
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Lillie on October 15, 2011, 08:47:19 PM
Thank you.
If memory serves, he got 18 yrs and that was appealed. I do not know what he ended up getting. Apparently, Wally Oppal wanted to keep him in for a very long time, but, it didn't happen. And, this one was in the Okanogan.
This guy has been off the radar since his release, doing his full time so he did not have to report to a parole officer.
One day, he will pay for all he has done. Whether he killed my baby gorl or not, he is guilty of other horrific crimes. He WILL get his due.
Shari
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Lillie on December 24, 2011, 11:49:27 AM
An announcement will be made by RCMP in the New Year concerning an up to, $10,000.00 reward, for information resulting in the arrest and conviction of her murderer.
Love
Shari\aka Lillie
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: solvy on December 24, 2011, 12:01:22 PM
Wonderful news Lillie, I hope this will be the year for Kathryn's justice! 
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Lillie on December 24, 2011, 12:08:14 PM
Me too, honey. Me too
Thanks
Love
MOI
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: victorian on March 09, 2012, 12:29:37 AM
Reward offered in 1975 killing of Matsqui girl
 
 
By Mike Raptis, The Province March 8, 2012


Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/news/Reward+offered+1975+killing+Matsqui+girl/6267606/story.html#ixzz1obAJ3UBd

It’s been over 36 years since her daughter’s unsolved murder, but Chilliwack’s Shari Greer still grieves — and refuses to give up hope.

On Thursday, Greer will make another appeal to the public to help find the killer of her 11-year-old daughter Kathryn-Mary Herbert, and offer a reward for the 1975 homicide: one of B.C.’s most infamous cold-case files.

Greer has done everything a mother would do after losing a child.

She reported Kathryn-Mary missing the same September night in 1975 her daughter was expected to return home from a friend’s house.

She has kept up with a police investigation that went cold decades ago, even accusing police of bungling the case at times.

She has turned to private detectives, politicians and the media.

When reached by The Province at her Chilliwack home Wednesday afternoon, Greer said she still doesn’t know what she’ll say when the cameras are on her Thursday afternoon at RCMP headquarters in Vancouver.

“I don’t know what to say, darling,” she said in a hushed, motherly tone. “Honey, I want the focus on my daughter, not on anything else,” said Greer.

Greer said she has been instructed by the RCMP to wait until Thursday before bringing her daughter’s cold case back onto the front burner.

Two rewards totalling $2,000 were also offered in November 1975.

On Sept. 24, 1975, Kathryn-Mary disappeared near her Matsui First Nation home — only to be found murdered two months later by a group of band members preparing an ancient burial rite.

An autopsy of the freckle-faced, brown curly-haired girl revealed a fractured skull and broken jaw.

A hunt for Kathryn-Mary’s killer turned up suspects, but no arrests were made. A convicted rapist who was dating a girl living in Greer’s house in 1975 was a suspect. He has since raped again, but is now a free man.

Less than a year after Kathryn-Mary was found, another girl — Theresa Hildebrandt of Matsqui — also disappeared.

Hildebrandt’s body was found four years later, also killed by a blow to the head and buried in a shallow grave.

The tragic story of Greer’s life doesn’t end with the loss of her daughter.

In 1974, her nine-year-old son Donnie drowned in a gravel pit.

In 1983, her son Butch, 21, committed suicide.

“He killed himself because he felt he’d failed his sister. He couldn’t solve her murder,” she told The Province in 2004.

Greer dedicated a web page to her three dead children, and began a “Garden of Tears” at her Chilliwack home in May 2003 as a memorial for her kids and others who have suffered the same unjust fate.

People have come from as far away as Australia to paint stones and dedicate them to lost loved ones.

Greer has dedicated her life to finding Kathryn-Mary’s killer, though she didn’t expect the hunt to last nearly four decades.

She ends a Nov. 23, 1975, poem she penned one week after her daughter’s body was found with the following lines:

“No matter what or who he is,

Nor, how much time has past (sic)

The Police will surely catch him

The man — who killed my Kath.”

mraptis@theprovince.com

twitter.com/mike_raptis

© Copyright (c) The Province


Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Kathi's Sister on March 09, 2012, 03:51:01 AM
Wishing and hoping for justice for you, Lillie. It's been 36 years of waiting for me, too, so I hope this reward manages to shake something loose in someone's memory somewhere.

Hugs for ya. Big ones.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Concerned on March 09, 2012, 10:43:20 PM
Quote
36 year old murder case revived
by The Canadian Press - Story: 72159
Mar 8, 2012 / 9:48 pm


Photo: The Canadian Press. All rights reserved.
Kathryn-Mary Herbert is shown in this undated RCMP handout photo. RCMP Major Crime investigators are seeking the public's assistance in relation to the1975 homicide of Kathryn-Mary Herbert. THE CANADIAN PRESS/HO
VANCOUVER - The mother of an 11-year-old girl who was murdered more than 36 years ago says she recently asked God to help find her daughter's killer.

A week later, Shari Greer received an anonymous donation of $10,000 to help move the cold case forward.

Greer said she is now offering the reward for information that will lead to the arrest and conviction of the person or persons who killed her daughter, Kathyrn-Mary Herbert.

"Someone knows what happened and who did this to her," Greer said during a Thursday news conference. "I hope with the passage of time this person will come forward and call the police with any information they may have."

The partially decomposed body of Herbert was found Nov. 17, 1975, on the Matsqui First Nations reserve, in British Columbia's Fraser Valley, about 80 kilometres east of Vancouver.

The young girl, described by her mother as a child who loved to sing and could play piano by ear, was last seen Sept. 24, 1975.

She had been visiting the home of a friend in Abbotsford, B.C., and was walking down a rural road when a friend offered to give her a ride on a bicycle.

RCMP Insp. Gary Shinkaruk said Herbert accepted the ride, and the friends parted ways at an intersection at about 8:50 p.m.

"Kathyrn-Mary never arrived home, and this was the last-known sighting of her," Shinkaruk.

Witnesses interviewed during the investigation recalled seeing a white, older-model, American-made vehicle driven by a lone male and parked between where Herbert was last seen and her home, said Shinkaruk.

He said the occupant of the vehicle has never been positively identified, and police believe he may have information that can help the case.

"We still have persons of interest," he said. "But to date we do not have sufficient evidence against anybody to lay a charge or bring somebody to justice."

Shinkaruk said there are some similarities between the disappearance of two other girls in the area, but police have not been able to definitively connect all three cases.

Shinkaruk said police have cracked historic homicides in the past thanks to advancement in technology, such as DNA, and the deterioration of relationships between killers and their friends.

Whatever the reason, whether its maturity or revenge, individuals who have information should talk to police, he said.

Greer has never lost hope that police will find her daughter's killer, and said she relies on her faith in God to carry her through the tragedy.

She thinks about her daughter every day, one of three children she has buried, and frequently deals with grief, Greer said.

"It's always there," said Greer. "It's always present. There is no such thing as closure, only resolution."
http://www.castanet.net/edition/news-story--4-.htm
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: blondy on December 13, 2012, 12:14:02 AM
When I was 11, I was often followed home by a white car with red interior. Other girls my age that went to South Poplar School were also followed by the same vehicle.

I was terrified of the very short-haired/bald driver. I used to run and hide every time I saw the car.

Then one day I heard screaming unlike anything I have heard since coming from the property on the corner of McCallum and Farmer. My parents assured me that they reported it to the police. Shortly after, we heard about the remains of a little girl who was murdered.

Years later, I became friends with the last known persons to be with girl who disappeared from Walmsley Road. They also reported seeing a white car with red shiny interior.

Years ago, I went to the police after hearing about the poor mother who wanted this situation resolved and answered.

I hope they resolve this.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: jellybean on December 13, 2012, 02:41:35 AM
Blondy: Thank you for responding. Her death has still not been resolved.

JB
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: SAP on January 27, 2013, 12:17:15 PM
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=257.0

Quote
This is from a news clipping
KATHRYN MARY HERBERT (11) - murdered in 1975
THERESA HILDEBRANDT (15) - murdered in 1976
ABBOTSFORD (British Columbia) CANADA
After 25 years, the question remains: Who killed Kathryn and Theresa?--(Abbotsford News)--Police have a suspect in Abbotsford's two unsolved child murders of the 1970s. The man is also a suspect in a third child slaying in Merritt. But police do not have the evidence to lay charges.

Whatever happened with this suspect?
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: SAP on January 27, 2013, 12:22:49 PM
Reward offered in 1975 killing of Matsqui girl
 
 
By Mike Raptis, The Province March 8, 2012


Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/news/Reward+offered+1975+killing+Matsqui+girl/6267606/story.html#ixzz1obAJ3UBd

It’s been over 36 years since her daughter’s unsolved murder, but Chilliwack’s Shari Greer still grieves — and refuses to give up hope.

On Thursday, Greer will make another appeal to the public to help find the killer of her 11-year-old daughter Kathryn-Mary Herbert, and offer a reward for the 1975 homicide: one of B.C.’s most infamous cold-case files.

Greer has done everything a mother would do after losing a child.

She reported Kathryn-Mary missing the same September night in 1975 her daughter was expected to return home from a friend’s house.

She has kept up with a police investigation that went cold decades ago, even accusing police of bungling the case at times.

She has turned to private detectives, politicians and the media.

When reached by The Province at her Chilliwack home Wednesday afternoon, Greer said she still doesn’t know what she’ll say when the cameras are on her Thursday afternoon at RCMP headquarters in Vancouver.

“I don’t know what to say, darling,” she said in a hushed, motherly tone. “Honey, I want the focus on my daughter, not on anything else,” said Greer.

Greer said she has been instructed by the RCMP to wait until Thursday before bringing her daughter’s cold case back onto the front burner.

Two rewards totalling $2,000 were also offered in November 1975.

On Sept. 24, 1975, Kathryn-Mary disappeared near her Matsui First Nation home — only to be found murdered two months later by a group of band members preparing an ancient burial rite.

An autopsy of the freckle-faced, brown curly-haired girl revealed a fractured skull and broken jaw.

A hunt for Kathryn-Mary’s killer turned up suspects, but no arrests were made. A convicted rapist who was dating a girl living in Greer’s house in 1975 was a suspect. He has since raped again, but is now a free man.

Less than a year after Kathryn-Mary was found, another girl — Theresa Hildebrandt of Matsqui — also disappeared.

Hildebrandt’s body was found four years later, also killed by a blow to the head and buried in a shallow grave.

The tragic story of Greer’s life doesn’t end with the loss of her daughter.

In 1974, her nine-year-old son Donnie drowned in a gravel pit.

In 1983, her son Butch, 21, committed suicide.

“He killed himself because he felt he’d failed his sister. He couldn’t solve her murder,” she told The Province in 2004.

Greer dedicated a web page to her three dead children, and began a “Garden of Tears” at her Chilliwack home in May 2003 as a memorial for her kids and others who have suffered the same unjust fate.

People have come from as far away as Australia to paint stones and dedicate them to lost loved ones.

Greer has dedicated her life to finding Kathryn-Mary’s killer, though she didn’t expect the hunt to last nearly four decades.

She ends a Nov. 23, 1975, poem she penned one week after her daughter’s body was found with the following lines:

“No matter what or who he is,

Nor, how much time has past (sic)

The Police will surely catch him

The man — who killed my Kath.”

mraptis@theprovince.com

twitter.com/mike_raptis

© Copyright (c) The Province




The mid 70's is when Bobby Fowler, an American serial killer was going through BC for work stints. Iirc, his MO fits here.
He is listed here at Unsolved under Serial killers. He has deceased now however police are looking at a number of murders in BC in relation to his MO and time frame.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: jobo on January 27, 2013, 07:49:02 PM
I have wondered in the past how people manage, that hire private investigators.  How many crimes are solved with a private investigator's help.  I see that Kathryn-Mary's mother hired one, but still no answers. 

Would someone like Bobby Fowler have cause to be on the Reservation?    It sounds to me that Kathryn-Mary was found on Native Land since she was found by band members preparing an ancient burial rite.

Her mother has faced so much heartbreak, to solve this crime would give her some much needed answers.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Have faith on January 27, 2013, 08:08:37 PM
There is nothing more frustrating, and heart breaking than knowing that the case is basically solved, but killer got away due to lack of evidence.  This is understandable before DNA analysis was available.  LE "know" that their main suspect is the killer.  One has to question what happened to the crime scene evidence.  Was it mishandled, tainted, lost, before DNA technology was available?  The only historical cases being solved today with forensics, are those where LE had the foresight to handle the evidence properly, which any trained investigator should have done.  Unfortunately, many of the old cases will never see the killer brought to justice.  But you can bet that LE know exactly who the killer is. 
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: SAP on January 27, 2013, 11:04:45 PM
I have wondered in the past how people manage, that hire private investigators.  How many crimes are solved with a private investigator's help.  I see that Kathryn-Mary's mother hired one, but still no answers. 

Would someone like Bobby Fowler have cause to be on the Reservation?    It sounds to me that Kathryn-Mary was found on Native Land since she was found by band members preparing an ancient burial rite.

Her mother has faced so much heartbreak, to solve this crime would give her some much needed answers.

I didn't put alot of thought into that Jobo. Fowler's victims were also older females, not children as far as we know.
So unfortunate so much evidence was lost between files being transferred from one detective to another. It's also shocking that police lost the letters and then had the nerve to say they thought that would bring closure. How could they even consider that? This is so tragic all the way around.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Hazel Main on November 30, 2014, 04:01:45 PM
“No matter what or who he is,

Nor, how much time has past (sic)

The Police will surely catch him

The man — who killed my Kath.”
SG.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: I care about Canadians on December 01, 2014, 04:36:04 PM
Man charged in deaths of B.C. girls nearly 40 years later
 
 
BY STAFF REPORTER, THE PROVINCE DECEMBER 1, 2014 2:24 PM


A man has been charged with first-degree murder of Abbotsford's Kathryn-Mary Herbert (l) and Monica Jack (r).

Nearly 40 years after they were murdered, a suspect has been charged in the deaths of Monica Jack, 12, and Kathryn-Mary Herbert, 11.

Mounties say suspect Gary Taylor Hanlon, 67, was arrested in Surrey and charged with two counts of first-degree murder after information was shared between the two cold case investigations.

Jack disappeared on a bike ride on May 6, 1978 near Merrit. Her bike would be found the next day but it would be another 17 years before her body was found.

Herbert was also last seen riding on a bike when she went missing. Her body was found in 1975.


© Copyright (c) The Province

http://www.theprovince.com/news/bc/charged+deaths+girls+nearly+years+later/10430792/story.html
 
 
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Chris on December 01, 2014, 08:34:16 PM
THis is super great news! I cannot believe it! In case anyone missed it, ehre is the documentary from David Ridgen a couple years ago on CBC!

https://vimeo.com/51664791
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: discus on December 01, 2014, 08:49:46 PM

Tamsyn Burgmann, The Canadian Press
Published Monday, December 1, 2014 8:24PM EST
Last Updated Monday, December 1, 2014 9:10PM EST
VANCOUVER -- Shari Greer made a promise to her 11-year-old daughter as she grieved over the girl's grave site that she would never give up the hunt for the killer.
Almost 40 year later, Greer says she's still wrapping her head around an arrest made on Friday that brings resolution to her mission.
Mounties in British Columbia revealed Monday they have arrested and charged a 67-year-old Ontario man with first-degree murder in the historic deaths of two young girls, who separately vanished near their homes in the 1970s.
PHOTOS
 
A photo of Garry Taylor Handlen, who has been charged in relation to the homicides of Kathryn-Mary Herbert and Monica Jack, is displayed during a news conference in Surrey, B.C., on Monday Dec. 1, 2014. (Darryl Dyck / THE CANADIAN PRESS)
Kathryn-Mary Herbert, 11, disappeared in Abbotsford, B.C., in 1975, and 12-year-old Monika Jack was last seen in Merritt, B.C., three years later.
"When this is over, I am going to have a well-deserved breakdown. I will forever hear my heart break," Greer, Herbert's mother, told a news conference after police thanked her for her relentless advocacy over the years.
"I want you to know these two little girls, Monica and Kathryn-Mary, made a difference in this world while they were here."
Both girls disappeared while travelling alone on roads in the southern part of the province.
Officers refused to provide specifics of what led to the breakthrough, saying they brought Garry Handlen into custody without incident in Surrey, B.C., although he no longer lives in the province.
Supt. Ward Lymburner, the officer in charge of the special projects unit, said three decades of investigation by multiple police forces combined to pinpoint the same suspect.
He described Handlen as having travelled extensively through B.C. and Alberta at the time and released his photograph from that era, asking the public to come forward with tips if it jogs any memories. He said the man previously lived in Lower Mainland and has a criminal record.
"He was brought into the investigation as a suspect or person of interest in the investigation early on," Lymburner said.
"It has taken us this long for us to gather the evidence needed to satisfy the courts to bring him forward on charges today."
He wouldn't comment on any existence of DNA evidence, but said all advances in forensic technology have been brought to bear.
Herbert was reported missing on Sept. 24, 1975, after failing to return home from a friend's house in Abbotsford, B.C., about 8:30 p.m. She was last seen by another friend who doubled her on his bicycle part-way, police said.
The girl's body turned up two months later in an undeveloped area of a First Nations reserve, prompting a series of investigations that included the issuing of a private $10,000 reward in 2012.
Monika Jack was last spotted on May 6, 1978. She was riding her bicycle alone along a stretch of Highway 5A, near the Nicola Ranch in Merritt, B.C., more than 200 km northeast from where Herbert disappeared.
The girl's bicycle was found down an embankment the following afternoon, not far from where she lived, but it took 17 years to find her body. Remains were discovered in a rural area north of the city, after a fire.
Investigators added the mystery of Jack's death to Project E-PANA, which had been probing 18 unsolved homicides or missing-women cases along B.C. highways. In 2007, new investigators reviewed 500 previously-conducted police tasks and initiated 241 more tasks, including a series of re-interviews and new forensic analysis.
"Every time I hear news on the TV about some other little girl or boy disappearing or they found them murdered, it really hurts me. I know how that feels," said Jack's mother, Madeline Lanaro.
"We expect our parents to die but we don't expect our children to die."
Handlen remains in custody and is scheduled to next appear in Abbotsford Provincial Court on Dec. 8.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/ontario-man-arrested-in-1970s-murders-of-two-b-c-girls-1.2128149
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: jellybean on December 01, 2014, 09:38:30 PM
I think Hazel Main had a clue that an announcement would be made soon. She brought the topic back only a few days ago. :)

Wonderful news!! and it's great to "see you" Chris.
 ;D
JB
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: D1 on December 01, 2014, 10:13:32 PM
So good to see Shari and Monica's mother finally getting to see some sort of justice..
40 years later for a suspect identified on day one. Can hardly wait to hear what finally made the difference.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: SAP on December 01, 2014, 10:14:00 PM
Fantastic news for the families as they now can put their loved ones to rest and have justice finally.

I wonder what this monster did in the last 40 years as I doubt he turned alterboy. Perhaps there are more cases across Canada that have similar MO.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: SAP on December 01, 2014, 10:41:30 PM
Handlen
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: ConcernedCitizen on December 02, 2014, 12:07:36 AM
I am so happy for both the parents of little Kathryn-Mary Herbert & Monica Jack.
You have waited so long.
Prayers are with both families & friends.

The arrest of 67 year old Gary Taylor Handlen. It's surprising what happens when the
Police Forces finally decide to share information. I hope the Crown can make the case
against him stick & he gets life (a full 25 years...nothing less.)  I would prefer the
Death Penalty for people like him. I think one day it just may be installed again.
I'm hoping. :)   Probably won't be in my life time though.... But the general public I
think are getting so fed up with the justice system. letting offenders out on bail
or early release to keep re-offending. Raping & Murdering over & over again until they
are again caught & once again released.  IMO our justice system is just sickening.
---------------------

     
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: I care about Canadians on December 02, 2014, 12:05:48 PM
Man charged in deaths of B.C. girls nearly 40 years later
 

 
BY KIM BOLAN, POSTMEDIA NEWS DECEMBER 1, 2014


Garry Taylor Handlen, a 67-year old Ontario man, is facing two counts of first-degree murder for the slayings of Kathryn-Mary Herbert in 1975 and Monica Jack in 1978.

He was arrested in Surrey Friday and will next appear in Abbotsford Provincial Court on Dec. 8.

Herbert, 11, disappeared Sept. 24, 1975, on her way to her Abbotsford home. Her remains were found two months later near Harris Road, hidden under a sheet of plywood. Her skull was fractured and her jaw broken.

Jack, 12, was riding her bike north on Highway 5A near Merritt when she vanished on May 6, 1978. Her bike was found the next day, but it would be 17 years before her remains were located about six kilometres from where she was last seen.

Jack’s mom, Madeline Lanaro, said her daughter “was a beautiful little girl right from the day she was born. She was always happy.”

Family, friends and neighbours searched tirelessly for Jack after she vanished and were devastated when they couldn’t find her.

Lanaro said Jack always wanted to be a social worker. Lanaro became one after her daughter was killed.

“When I think back it wasn’t easy and even today it’s not easy,” she said during a news conference held at B.C. RCMP headquarters, tears streaming down her face. “That hurt never goes away.”

Herbert’s mom, Shari Greer, also spoke through tears, thanking the police and everyone who helped keep her daughter’s case alive.

“I promised her at her graveside that I would never give up,” Greer said.

Chief Supt. Jim Gresham, who heads the RCMP’s Major Crime Section in B.C., praised both Lanaro and Greer for being “amazing advocates for their daughters.”

“Ensuring they had the answers they so rightly deserved was a powerful force that guided us over these many years. While these investigations were led by two different investigative and integrated teams, information has been constantly shared and efforts combined when the same suspect was identified in the two cases,” Gresham said.

Herbert’s case was initially investigated by the Matsqui police, which was later absorbed by the Abbotsford Police Department.

Abbotsford officers continued to work on the case over the years even after the B.C. Unsolved Homicide Unit took it over in October 2005, Deputy Chief Rick Lucy said Monday.

Jack’s case was one of the 18 investigations that made up the RCMP’s Project E-PANA, which was focused on solving homicide and missing persons cases between 1969 to 2006 along major highways in northern B.C., including the Highway of Tears.

Police wouldn’t comment on what the break was in the case that led them to Handlen.

In the mid-1970s he was living in the Lower Mainland, police said. They said he’s known to police and has a criminal record.

A 24-year-old man with the same name as Handlen was sentenced to 5˝ years in prison in 1971 for raping an 18-year-old Comox housewife.

Eight years later, a Garry Taylor Handlen was again in court for raping a 21-year-old Quebec hitchhiker in the woods near a rest area in Manning Park. At the time, the judge told Handlen, then 32, that he was a “menace to society.”

During sentencing, Crown counsel Wally Oppal requested life imprisonment for the convicted rapist to send a message “people like Mr. Handlen can’t take advantage of defenceless girls.” Handlen received an 18-year prison term.

“The road to today’s announcement has been long,” said RCMP Supt. Ward Lymburner, noting Jack’s investigation alone, once transferred to the E-PANA team, involved the review of more than 500 investigative tasks and initiating another 241 new tasks.

“Our efforts to bring the girls’ alleged killer to justice have been extensive and exhaustive,” said Lymburner.

On Monday, police released a photo of Handlen around the time of his alleged offences. It is asking anyone with information on Handlen’s movements in the mid- to late 1970s to call their tip line at 1-877-543-4822.

— With files from Cheryl Chan


© Copyright (c) The Province
 
http://www.theprovince.com/news/charged+deaths+girls+nearly+years+later/10430792/story.html

LINK TO PICTURE OF GARRY TAYLOR HANDLEN circa 1970s   http://bc.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/digitalAssets/45/45046_HANDLEN_HR.jpg

LINK TO PICTURE OF GARRY TAYLOR HANDLEN present day
  http://i.cbc.ca/1.2856795.1417534586!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_220/garry-taylor-handlen.jpg
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: me on December 02, 2014, 12:37:30 PM
a previous poster quoted a statement that the same suspect was being considered for Theresa Hildebrant's murder.  Here is hoping that her family will also get closure in the near future.  As they are releasing his photograph from the 1970's, I think it is a safe guess that they are trying to link him to other cases.  Theresa Hildebrant disappeared just one year after Kathryn-Mary.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: debbiec on December 02, 2014, 02:09:10 PM
a previous poster quoted a statement that the same suspect was being considered for Theresa Hildebrant's murder.  Here is hoping that her family will also get closure in the near future.  As they are releasing his photograph from the 1970's, I think it is a safe guess that they are trying to link him to other cases.  Theresa Hildebrant disappeared just one year after Kathryn-Mary.

Can you please quote the reply number, me? I can't seem to find it.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Fraser on December 02, 2014, 06:23:26 PM
Good news...I would imagine they are looking at him for a few others, maybe these little ones but I'm not sure how old he would have been at that time:
Nov 6, 1967 - Nancy Joan Johnsen, age 7 - Surrey, BC

Nov 20, 1969 - Evangeline Azarcon, age 7 - Surrey, BC

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/ontario-man-arrested-in-1970s-murders-of-two-bc-girls-284397781.html?cx_navSource=d-popular-views&device=mobile
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: jellybean on December 02, 2014, 07:20:41 PM
Good news...I would imagine they are looking at him for a few others, maybe these little ones but I'm not sure how old he would have been at that time:
Nov 6, 1967 - Nancy Joan Johnsen, age 7 - Surrey, BC

Nov 20, 1969 - Evangeline Azarcon, age 7 - Surrey, BC


http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/ontario-man-arrested-in-1970s-murders-of-two-bc-girls-284397781.html?cx_navSource=d-popular-views&device=mobile

As to age - quite possible - He was 31 in 1975. He might of started earlier, but got caught on these two.
I wonder why they say he was from Ontario? That baffles me - these two girls were from BC and he was arrested in Surrey.

JB
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Fraser on December 02, 2014, 07:52:13 PM
If he was living in Ontario now, he may have moved to Ontario because he was so well known to the police in BC.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: discus on December 02, 2014, 08:10:37 PM
Timeline

1969: Garry Taylor Handlen is convicted of indecent assault. Then 22 years old, he is sentenced to six months.
1971: Handlen is convicted of rape and sentenced to five years and six months in prison.
1975: On Sept. 24, Kathryn-Mary Herbert, 11, was on her way home when she was abducted in Abbotsford, B.C.. Her body was found in November under some rotting boards on the Matsqui Indian Reserve, north of Abbotsford. Handlen knew Herbert's family through a teenage girl he was dating who was living with the Herbert family.
1978: On May 6, Monica Jack, 12, was riding her bike north on Highway 5A near the Nicola Ranch in Merritt, B.C. Her bike was discovered the next day, but her remains weren't found until 1995, in a rural area north of Merritt.
1978: Handlen is sentenced for assault with intent to rape in New Westminster and is jailed for six months.
1978: In September Handlen picked up a hitchhiker near Hope, B.C. He later stopped the car and repeatedly sexually assaulted her. He dragged her by the neck and also placed his thumbs on her throat, choking her. She managed to escape, half naked, and was picked up by a passing motorist. Handlen was sentenced to 18 years, but on appeal that sentence was later reduced to 12 years.
Since his release from prison Handlen has spent time in Edmonton, and more recently, in Minden, Ont.
2014: On Dec. 1, RCMP announce Handlen has been charged with two counts of first-degree murder in the deaths of the two girls. RCMP Supt. Ward Lymburner said, "The road to today’s announcement has been long." He added, "Police reviewed over 500 investigative tasks and then initiated another 241 tasks including re-interviewing individuals and exploring new forensic analysis." Handlen is now 67-years-old.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/garry-taylor-handlen-accused-child-killer-evaded-charges-for-39-years-1.2857584
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: me on December 03, 2014, 02:40:53 PM
Debbie, I can't spot the original statement for some reason, but Solvy re-quoted it in reply #92

Looking at post # 83, it appears that the details of the suspect match up with Garry Hanlen - he was dating a teen that was boarding with Kathryn-Mary's family and was also convicted later for a rape in which the prosecutor was Wally Oppal.  So it would appear that the family and LE had the man pegged all along, but didn't have evidence to lay charges.  When this comes to trial, I hope they reveal how they got the new evidence to lay charges, as the technique used may help to solve other cold cases.

It could simply be that, 39 years later, a witness that was afraid finally came forward.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: debbiec on December 03, 2014, 04:16:01 PM
from 'me':
Quote

Debbie, I can't spot the original statement for some reason, but Solvy re-quoted it in reply #92


Thanks I've found it now.

(quoted by SAP).

The original statement is on Theresa Hildebrant's thread, and the link to that thread is supplied above the quote, in reply #92.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: jellybean on December 06, 2014, 10:54:46 AM
Here is a bit more about Garry.  Read this elsewhere,
http://mindentimes.ca/?p=5662

Minden man accused of B.C. murders known in the community

 December 2, 2014   

By Angelica Blenich

Garry Handlen was known in the community of Minden, often seen puttering around his yard on Anson Street or drinking at local bars.

A resident of the area for the past decade or so, Handlen was charged by RCMP with two counts of first-degree murder of two British Columbia girls on Dec. 1.

Handlen, 67, was arrested in Surrey, B.C., according to RCMP, charged in the deaths of Kathryn-Mary Herbert, who was murdered in 1975 at the age of 11 and Monica Jack, found dead in 1978 at the age of 12.

A long-time resident of Anson Street, Brent Devolin confirmed to the Times that Handlen has been living there for the past decade or so.

“I had observed him over the years, I didn’t know him per se,” said Devolin. “He’s been there off and on … [for] more than a decade … he’s someone you would see in the yard, because he’s a putterer.”

Devolin said he would wave to Handlen when saw him on the street but that the two never spoke.

“He was a quiet, solitary soul,” said Devolin. “I never heard anything negative about him, ever.”

Handlen was known to other residents of Anson Street as well.

“He gave us a TV and a VCR,” said a man, who wished not be identified, explaining Handlen had assisted him and his wife after the devastating flood in the spring of 2013. “I know he’s done work for other people on the street.”

The couple, whose home is a few doors down from the residence where Handlen was living, said they saw him on a regular basis and were shocked to learn of the murder charges.

“We see him every day, nearly,” the man said. “Always friendly. From what we knew of him, you couldn’t ask for a nicer guy.”

Another neighbour said he’d only met him once, but understood that Handlen did work as a handyman.

The woman in the house next door to the home where Handlen stayed, said she knew of the charges, but had no comment.

The Times was not able to contact the woman who owns the home where Handlen resided.

Sean Hooey, owner of popular bar The Rockcliffe Tavern, said Handlen used to frequent his establishment.

“He was in here the summer of 2012,” said Hooey. “He was here quite often … he was kind of a weird guy. He would get kind of confrontational with people after a few drinks.”

Hooey said it got to a point where he asked Handlen to stop coming to the bar. He didn’t see him again until the summer of 2013.

“He was randomly in here on a Saturday night,” he said. “I told him to leave and he got kind of wound up.”

Hooey said he didn’t have any indication of Handlen’s criminal past and that he mostly kept to himself.

“He would come in a have a cheeseburger and a beer … he was usually on his own” said Hooey. “He used to talk about being here [in Minden] in the 1980s.”

When the bar owner first heard the news that Handlen was charged with first-degree murder he was shocked. The charges have not been proven in a court of law.

Hooey said Handlen always used his real name when at The Rockcliffe Tavern.

Devolin said he did see Handlen in the neighbourhood during the month of November, but can’t remember the last time he saw him.

According to the RCMP, Handlen was arrested without incident on Nov. 28 in Surrey, B.C and is being held in custody, scheduled to appear in Abbotsford Provincial Court Monday, Dec. 8.

Anyone with information on Handlen is encouraged to contact the RCMP tip line at 1-877-543-4822.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: ConcernedCitizen on December 14, 2014, 09:49:40 PM
I tried  to copy & paste the Article but it wouldn't work. So going to try it this way.

http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/canada/britishcolumbia/story/1.2864334

GARRY TAYLOR HANDLEN....Makes court appearance in Abbotsford.

The man charged last week with first degree murder of two BC girls in the 1970s made
his first court appearance in Abbotsford.

His next Court Appearance is March 2015.

More details are available at the above Link. Hope it works. :)

Handlen is 67 years old.
 
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: Lillie on January 30, 2015, 12:47:32 AM
On Nov 28/14, Garry Taylor Handlen was arrested for the murder of my Kath and Monica Jack who was murdered three years after Kath (I believe). Thank you all for your kindness and your prayers.
I love you all
Shari
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: D1 on February 20, 2019, 02:31:26 PM
Handlen was not convicted for Katherine's murder but was convicted and sentenced to life for the murder of Monica Jack. Katherine's mother Shari promised her daughter that justice would be done. It was through Monica. Unfortunately Shari passed away prior to seeing that but I think she knew it was coming one way or another. She was confident of that in her final years.

From-

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/you-are-among-the-worst-of-offenders-man-convicted-of-monica-jack-s-murder-sentenced-1.4272290 (https://bc.ctvnews.ca/you-are-among-the-worst-of-offenders-man-convicted-of-monica-jack-s-murder-sentenced-1.4272290)

Published Monday, January 28, 2019 11:03AM PST 
 Last Updated Monday, January 28, 2019 6:58PM PST 



Quote
Charge in another death dismissed

In addition to sentencing Handlen for his role in Monica's death, the judge also addressed another case in which the 71-year-old was accused.

He faced a first-degree murder charge in the death of 11-year-old Kathryn Mary Herbert, in Abbotsford in 1975. Handlen pleaded not guilty.

As with Monica's death, Handlen had confessed to her killing in a Mr. Big sting – a tactic once used by the RCMP to extract confessions by convincing suspects they were talking to a crime boss.

The second case was previously covered by a publication ban. On Monday, the judge dismissed the charge.

The Crown is not proceeding with the case because the confession which was permitted in the first case was ruled inadmissible in Kathryn's.

"As a result, the Crown was left with little other evidence linking the offender to that offence," said Dan McLaughlin with the BC Prosecution Service.

The girl's mother passed away in 2016, but said previously that she'd made a vow to her daughter.

"I promised her at her graveside I would never give up," Shari Greer said at a news conference in 2014.

A private investigator who looked into the case said she was unwavering in her search for answers.

"She was extremely determined in finding out who killed her daughter and to see that he comes to justice," Lee Hanlon said.

With files from CTV Vancouver's Maria Weisgarber

.


Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: jellybean on February 20, 2019, 06:38:59 PM
Thank you D1 for the info.  I guess Mr Big did not include Kathryn in their sting?


jb
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: D1 on February 20, 2019, 09:33:53 PM
Yes very strange. Couldn't find much detail as to why the sting was accepted in one case but not the other..
Quote
The Crown is not proceeding with the case because the confession which was permitted in the first case was ruled inadmissible in Kathryn's.
Title: Re: Kathryn-Mary Herbert - Unsolved Murder - Abbotsford BC (1975)
Post by: debbiec on February 24, 2019, 08:44:00 PM
This is what I was able to find in regard why the sting was accepted in one case but not the other.


Handlen confession to murder of second girl ruled inadmissible


According to a pre-trial ruling released Tuesday, B.C. Supreme Court Justice Austin Cullen found Garry Taylor Handlen’s confession to murdering Kathryn-Mary Herbert to be inadmissible.

The jury that convicted Garry Taylor Handlen of murdering 12-year-old Monica Jack did not hear during the trial that he had confessed to the slaying of another girl.

When Handlen, now 71, was arrested in November 2014, he was charged with Monica’s first-degree murder from May 1978, as well as the September 1975 first-degree murder of 11-year-old Kathryn-Mary Herbert.

During a police sting known as a Mr. Big operation, Handlen first confessed to undercover officers posing as members of a criminal organization that he had killed Monica.

Then, two days later, he admitted he had also killed Kathryn-Mary Herbert, who went missing while walking home in Matsqui.

About two months after her mother reported her missing to police, her body was found under a piece of plywood in a remote wooded area on the Matsqui First Nations reserve.

An autopsy revealed she had died of “blunt force trauma” to her head. She had a skull fracture and a broken jaw.

Handlen confessed to the undercover officers that he had picked her up in his vehicle, had sex with her, and then strangled her before accidentally driving over her body and then disposing of it in an “Indian graveyard.”

A day after his confession, he showed investigators where he had picked up the girl in his vehicle, an area which generally corresponded to where she was last seen walking alone.

He also showed police where he killed her and left her body, a location which corresponded to the remote area where the body was found.

But during a pre-trial hearing, Handlen denied committing the murder, saying he was familiar with the area and had gotten information about the Herbert homicide from newspaper accounts and documentaries on the case.

And because the confessions were made during a Mr. Big operation, they were deemed presumptively inadmissible, requiring the Crown to establish on a balance of probabilities that the probative value of the confessions outweighed their prejudicial effect.

In a ruling released last August and posted online Tuesday, B.C. Supreme Court Justice Austin Cullen found that Handlen’s confession to the Monica Jack homicide was admissible, but questioned whether the confession to the Herbert homicide should proceed to trial.

“Although a willingness to confess to the abduction, rape and murder of an 11-year-old child, in most circumstances, is a powerful indication of the reliability of that confession, the circumstances are somewhat different,” the judge said in his 138-page ruling.

“The accused had already confessed to the abduction, rape and murder of a 12-year-old girl in the hope and expectation that he would be saved from the consequences of a looming investigation into that homicide.”

The circumstances surrounding the confession to the Herbert homicide were therefore “considerably more likely to inspire a false confession” to that murder, added the judge.

The presence or absence of supporting evidence was therefore important in assessing the reliability of the confession, said the judge.

With several exceptions, none of the evidence the Crown put forward as supporting evidence negated Handlen’s story that he got details of the crime from media and documentary accounts, he said.

“The evidence establishes that the accused was prone to strong embellishments,” said the judge, adding that he was unable to conclude the confession achieved sufficient reliability or probative value to offset the inherent prejudice created by the Mr. Big technique.

“I accordingly decline to admit the evidence of the accused’s confession to the Herbert homicide.”

The judge’s decision was subject to a publication ban, resulting in the jury at the trial not hearing details of Handlen’s confession.

In January, Handlen received the mandatory sentence of life in prison with no parole eligibility for 25 years for the murder of Monica Jack. The judge then dismissed the Herbert murder charge.

https://kriminalis.net/2019/02/14/handlen-confession-to-murder-of-second-girl-ruled-inadmissible (https://kriminalis.net/2019/02/14/handlen-confession-to-murder-of-second-girl-ruled-inadmissible)