Unsolved Murders | Missing People Canada

Listing Of Unsolved Murders & Missing People In Canada => Ontario Unsolved Murders & Missing People => Other Locations => Topic started by: Desespere on April 26, 2007, 11:03:04 PM

Title: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Desespere on April 26, 2007, 11:03:04 PM
Kathleen MacVicar - Posted
Age: 19
COD: Stabbed/sexually assaulted
DOB:
Date last seen: June 13, 2001
Location last seen: Quinte-West, ON
Date found: June 15, 2001
Location found: Trenton, ON

Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West - Kathleen was seen for the last time leaving on foot from a friend's residence. Two days later, on June 15th 2001, her body was discovered on the National Defense property Canadian Forces Base Trenton, Ontario along Curtis Road. MacVicar was the victim of murder. She had been raped and stabbed.
Any person having information regarding the person(s) responsible for this murder should immediately contact the Director of the Criminal Investigation Branch, Ontario Provincial Police at 1-888-310-1122 or (705) 329-6111, the ?Project Shadow? office at (613) 962-5637, their nearest police authority, or Crime Stoppers.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on June 06, 2008, 05:39:06 PM
Kathleen was from Glace Bay, N.S.  This was a shock to everyone in our area, because she was not up there for a long period of time. There has not been any news recently or if they feel that the person who did this crime has done this kind of thing before.  So much time has gone by and no news on the matter, they should do a re-enactment or something in the area where this happened.  It will soon be the anniversary of her death and I hope that in the Trenton area they will do something on the news to bring it up and see if anyone does come forward.  This could  have been done by someone in the military who is always on the move.  Hoping that they do something to keep her memory alive and the matter can be solved.   ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Chris on June 10, 2008, 03:30:27 AM
I hope the police have a good suspect. They won't quit. It may take time. I would not be surprised if they do.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: DVC185 on February 25, 2009, 06:02:37 PM
CTV Ottawa just an update on this issue and no progress to report.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on February 26, 2009, 10:42:54 AM
So sorry to hear that about Kathleen's case. I really thought that something would have come up on the case. I mean that is only a small area that they live in, it is not like a large city. I believe it could have been someone on the move that committed this crime. June is the time that people are moving about, tourists and all and they are not that far from the big cities. I can't believe they didn't get a POI in this case. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Chris on February 27, 2009, 03:24:50 AM
It is nice know though that someone is still concerned about this case. I hope they have a POI.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: me on February 27, 2009, 12:37:04 PM
Was there any hint that anyone on the base could have been involved?
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: mauvelilac on February 27, 2009, 12:51:12 PM
More than a hint...but if someone from the base was involved no one will ever know. What happens on a base usually stays on a base. You can tell that from Joe Grozelles death. He was a military student.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: me on February 28, 2009, 07:42:33 AM
Mauv, that's exactly what I was getting at.  If that's the case, the only thing that surprises me is that the local police brought it up again recently.  Usually the names are just allowed to fade into obscurity, you won't even be able to find records that the person ever lived or frequented the area of base.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on March 01, 2009, 10:16:18 AM
I believe if Kathleen's relatives were living in the area she was killed, there would be a higher likely of this case being solved. The fact that her parents and family live down here in Cape Breton, well it is hard for them to keep this case alive. It seems like yesterday to me that she was killed and now we are into 2009, it is unreal how fast the time goes by and still no answers. Somebody knows something up there. There has to be someone who is hiding knowledge of this crime. Nobody kept this to themselves. If it was a young individual he told a friend. If it was an older individual, someone is going to know their condition when they came home that night and also their attitude the next day on when the crime was made public. I surely hope that Kathleen's murder is solved.  ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on May 09, 2009, 05:31:24 PM
Des, thanks for that clip of the news on Kathleen, any news about this case is good to keep it in the pulbic eye.  I never hear anything down here about the case anymore, it seems like yesterday and it is now eight years since this happened. For sure the person who has committed this crime has committed other crimes and may be anywhere doing the same types of crimes across Canada and the USA. If he was a military man, he could have been gone to another country the next day, maybe the crime will never be solved unless someone speaks out. 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Skeptikalguy on May 21, 2009, 06:39:26 PM
Just so that you all know.. there is someone here.. who takes care of a cross that was placed where they found her body..
Someone puts small toys, blue ribbons.. etc,...and lately a picture of Kathleen has been on the cross..
that is how I found out about it..
The road where she was found is a very dark and lonely stretch of road..with no houses on it..

Just thougt I would update you caring souls..
Cheers..
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on May 21, 2009, 07:32:42 PM
Skept, thanks for that update. I am sure they are probably her relatives that are leaving the cross and momentos at the site, just so it is not forgotten. It is coming to the anniversary now of her death and no leads. Maybe on the anniversary of her death the Trenton news will put a piece in the paper. Sure hope the police are still keeping an eye open on this case. I wasn't aware that there was a similar crime in London.  So maybe there is a serial killer around the Ontario area. 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on May 22, 2009, 05:16:06 PM
Des, that is some information that there maybe a killer moving about in the province of Ontario. This person must have assaulted someone before, because they indicate it was a stranger attack and not someone she knew. To think this person is still out there and no known suspect in their sights, sure must be a source of concern for the people in that area. Hoping that they do get someone soon in the crimes committed against these women. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Aug1698 on July 28, 2009, 11:31:58 PM
I worked at a call Center in 2001, I met a girl while working there, she was bright and funny and so full of life. My favorite memory of her was seeing her skip across the parking lot one day wearing the cutest hat, she giggle when I complimented it, as it was her 18 month old cousins hat.

The last time I saw her she was waiting for friends to pick her up after work. If I had only known then what was to come I would have hugged her and told her how much she meant to me, and I would have made her promise me that she would never walk alone after dark. At that time she was a co worker, who always made me smile, but today her memory haunts me and it tears me apart that her murder goes onsolved. I didn't know her long, but she will always be in my heart.

When I was told of Kathleens death I remember being in shock. I remember hitting the person who told me and yelling at them, that that wasn't a funny joke, I only wish now that it had been a joke, and that Kathleen could still be here today, to giggle at wearing a baby's hat....

Rest in peace Kathleen and know you are never far from my memory and I think of you all the time....

I have since moved away from the area, but if memory serves me correctly, the road was a stretch of road running parallel  to the city limits close enough to be considered the city, but far enough to be a stretch of bare road.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on July 29, 2009, 05:31:26 PM
I sure wish they would find out some new information related to Kathleen's murder. It seems like yeserday, because she is from Glace Bay area and that is only 20 miles from me. Somebody must know something about that night, somebody did not just go home after murdering someone and act normal. I feel so bad for her family in CB, because there does not seem to be any new information. ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Mikeem on July 30, 2009, 02:02:15 AM
I am Kathleen's Cousin, she lived with me before she had moved to Ontario & I was 14 at the time. This is the first time i have ever read these and its nice to know others care. the people looking after the cross are not family! our family that lived on that base had been transferred elsewhere. So if u ever meet these kind people tell them thank you from me please. Kathleen was the best kinda person and I pray that one day we don't have to sit and wonder who did this. Anyways just wanted to say thank you to everyone commenting on this. its July 30Th right now and the last post was yesterday. its hard to believe all this time has gone by. Thanks Everyone!

 http://capebretonpost.com/index.cfm?sid=273652&sc=145

I seen this is this is why i googled her name and came across this site, made me sit and wonder
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: TristaParent on July 30, 2009, 11:31:25 AM
Kathleen was my friend and such a great person.  I think about her often and wish that things played out different that evening.  Unfortunately, that was not the case.  We miss her dearly and want to find jsutice for this young woman whose life ended way too soon.  That same year I moved away, which was one less family to give support.  She is gone, but not forgotten and I hope that RCMP and police never give up on her and her family.
Much love for Kathleen XOXOX
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on July 30, 2009, 06:16:07 PM
Mikeem, sure glad you found this site, because we never forgot Kathleen. I read your link to the CB post, that is quite incredible that this man is from the same area that Kathleen was from. And that this was around the Trenton base that he committed another crime. The police may take a close look at him and investigate to see if he is involved in any other crimes in that area. >:( >:( :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Chris on July 31, 2009, 02:54:21 PM
Thanks for posting. I sure hope thi case can be solved soon. I don't think the police forget these cases. Sorry about your friend.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: solvingmystery on September 04, 2009, 07:19:55 AM
I am a resident of Trenton, and a woman, and this horrible crime has haunted me since the day she was found.  I pray all the time the killer will be found and brought to justice.  I was wondering though does anyone know what TIME Kathleen was walking alone???  The other thing is, there is a corner store right by where she was found, and I had heard a long time ago they have cameras outside and that kathleen had walked by those cameras....they should also find out who was in or out of the store around the time she walked by or take note of any passing vehicles....anyhow if anyone knows the time I'd realy like to know.  Thanks,
RIP Kathleen no one here will rest until we know what happened!
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on September 05, 2009, 07:45:42 PM
Solving, why do you want to know the time. ??? ??? Have you an idea of something that happened on that evening that may throw some light on the case. I think the police would have been right in on the video camera evidence immediately. That is why they possibly know the route she took. But, I understood she took a shortcut home. It would be nice if someone could put a picture on here of the area Kathleen was found in. These items of interest would be very helpful if the police did have them available. They do feel this was a stranger that committed this crime. But so much time has gone by now, it is someone carrying a deep dark secret. It certainly could have been a military person that commited this crime and has long since left the area and could be committing other crimes. We down here in the CB area always think about this case and hope it will be solved. ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: barbara on October 16, 2009, 09:11:46 AM
i,am also from trenton ontario and live a couple of blocks away from middleton park,this case is still open like it was yesterday...quinte west? hopefully i can answer those queastions for you.i dont know why we are quinte west,but quinte west covers alot of space here ,trenton ,belleville and surronding area.known as hastings county.i guess as it grows,we dont call it a county town or a rural road ,its now all quinte west.....and yes we have quinte west police known as opp.the trenton army base is located in bayside ontario.to me its all trenton.and not far apart.its that small if you blink you,ll miss it.mcvicars was found in middleton park,and that park is not far from trenton.s city,you could walk it in 10 minutes from downtown trenton,the park is used often it almost sits right between trenton and the base,most kids from base will use this park as a short cut to the base,there is really nothing there,it would maybe take her 10 minutes from cresswell to walk it.if she was on cresswell then she would have had to walk threw downtown trenton to get to the other side of the bridge to the base....cresswell is a housing complex,before you get to base theres a zellers plaza,people cut threw there all the time,to go to base,middleton park is behind there.....kathleen is still the talk of this town and people here have not forgotten her.like everyone else,there are stories here about it and i dont belive she was murderd in the park .all i know is that they found her there.it is true she was not a resident here long and she stayed with family on the base and she was from down east visiting family here,and worked downtown trenton at a call centre which is still there.you asked if anyone could send you pitures,and can i post this on this site.i will go to middleton park for you and take pitures of it.i live right across from the park,this area is not hidden its very open,with lots of houses..the news paper here is the trentoian,,ill go to the library and post it for you all the articles....i read not to long ago in the paper that cold case detectives,are in trenton.....i belive are police here will never close this file,nor will it sit in a box,as unsolved.i belive the killer is still in quinte west, ,kathleen is not the only girl murderd here in trenton,couple years ago another women was found on atkins rd near base,they said she was beatin to death ,she was the daughter of a police chief,her case has not been solved either....after kathleen another girl was found in the trent river she to was beatin and raped,her killer was sentenced about 2 years ago,opp say he wasnt involved with mcvicar cause he was serving time in prison at the time of her death..trenton is not a nice place to live.ill post that this week.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: barbara on October 16, 2009, 11:42:57 AM
sarah martin was found murderd in trenton to......her killer awaits trial in napanee detention centre,known as quinte west regional detention centre,,,sarah martin was found murderd in quinte west   trenton...on mount pelion,which is just up the street from cresswell not far at all.she worked at the call centre to but not the same as kathleen ,two diffrent places.......i belive his trial starts really soon here......i never thought about this guy.......police never  said if they were investigating him   but good point,,,sarah martim was not from london,,,,,,,sarah martin knew her killer,the guy charged for her murder,was her boyfriend......my daughter in law is her cousin,small town........mount pelion is a tour attraction here.i,ll post that for ya too,,,,,,,,there are many here who have been murderd....but not forgotten
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on October 16, 2009, 12:09:13 PM
Barbara, thanks for all the information, that is really helpful to know in my heart that they really do care about Kathleen's murder. You know, when all this time is gone by and it seems like yesterday that it happened and still no arrests, it is disturbing. My sister lives in the area of Trenton also and I have visited up there a couple of years ago. I do know where the Zellers mall is and have been there. I know it is not an overly big place and I think I have heard of the murder you were speaking of, the lady that her father was a police chief. Usually when it is a boyfriend-girlfriend or spousal murder, it is an isolated incident, as they call it. It is usually a rage against the husband or wife and it ends up tragically. You know, Barbara, you may have hit the nail on the head here, she possibly was moved from the area she was murdered in and placed in the area she was. She may have been killed in an apartment or house and then her body was moved to the area she was found. I cannot remember if the police indicated these particulars when she was found. Thank you so much for the information and so glad to know that people never forgot Kathleen. And Solvy, I hope you did find out the time of the crime.  :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Julia on October 26, 2009, 05:50:40 PM
Hi. I lived in the Trenton area at the time of Kathleen's murder.  In fact, I worked at the Military Family Resource Centre just a few minutes from where her body was found.  I now live in Nova Scotia.  My deepest condolances go to her family. 
If it is any comfort to Kathleen's family, the people of Trenton (which is part of a bigger amalgamated area called Quinte West), have not forgotten about Kathleen.  I attended several candlight vigils in her honour.  This murder came as a huge shock to our community.  Trenton is quite small as some of your other members have written. Not considered to be a place with a lot of crime.  Curtis Road is the road that links the City of Trenton to the acutal Military Base.  It is not very long, but at night it is dark.  Although CFB Trenton is one of the largest employers in the area, there are lots of other employers.  Trenton is located along Highway #401 which is the main east-west route along southern Ontario.  I would hate to see any investigation focus just on military personnel.  In my opinion, it was not likely someone from the military but rather someone who may be more tranisent. Military members who are preparing to go away are usually kept very busy in the days prior to departure. I would find it unusual that they would have the time to commit a murder.
If you have any questions about the geography, or the proximity of the area in relation to the base I can help.
God Bless
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on October 26, 2009, 05:56:20 PM
I remember back when this hit the news in Cape Breton.  I always suspected a military base connection for some reason.... call it instinct... I don't know...just feel it! :(
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on October 26, 2009, 07:53:24 PM
I also think there is a military connection with this case. Because of the fact that people are moving around so much, they are here one day and gone the next. It would be interesting to know what troops were moved out shortly after the crime, this would maybe throw some light on if it could be a military person. I hope it isn't anyone in the military, because persons in my family were in the military and since have retired and I know there are a lot of wonderful men and women who serve our country, but it is like everything else, there are people with problems out there. I hope the police up there know that we are always here and thinking about Kathleen. And by the way, Julia, welcome back to Nova Scotia. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Chris on October 27, 2009, 12:55:02 AM
That is interesting that it happened at the time it did then. Moving would include a lot of civilian personnel.

Who was her friend? Was it a normal everyday friend or a male friend? Was he the last who saw her? Did she have a boyfriend?

It is possible it is random, but I am more likely to look at people in her life first because chances are....

I'd be interested in knowing if they were able to get a DNA profile?
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on October 27, 2009, 08:21:53 PM
Chris, I feel the same way. But previously they felt that it was a random act, that she did not know the person. But she had been living there for a period of time. I also voice your thoughts on this. When did she leave the place she was, as another person on here indicated. Maybe she was murdered in another area and her body placed where it was. I think someone knows something about this crime and they are not coming forward. And why would she be so brave to walk this are at night alone, especially not being from the area. I know even in the area I live, I wouldn't walk home alone. If I go over to a neighbour's house and come home after 11:00, I get them to watch me until I get in my back door. You never know who is out there these days.  ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: solvingmystery on October 30, 2009, 08:33:29 AM
I am hoping they have DNA evidence in this case. If she was raped there is a huge chance they do have DNA.  I wanted to know the time because I have long suspected someone, it's a long shot, but I couldn't ignore the hunch and have thought about it for years.  I reported my hunch to the authorities this week so I hope they will act on it.  Im also wondering the possibility that someone offered her a ride, and when she told them she lived on the base, did they start driving there but didn't quite make it there?  Or was someone following her, or hiding in the bushes....maybe we'll never know, but I don't think we should give up hope.  I think it's obvious this person has never been involved in the criminal justice system, because convicts have thier DNA tested do they not??
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on November 02, 2009, 06:17:06 PM
Solvy, my hunch was right then, I felt you had some kind of a feeling. You know, it is better to be safe then sorry. I am glad that you gave your information to someone in confidence. You wouldn't want something to happen to someone else, because of something you didn't tell. God bless and if they did something they will pay and if they did not, they will walk free. It is better to be safe then sorry. Good luck in the future and keep us posted. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Julia on November 03, 2009, 05:06:10 PM
Thanks for the welcome back to NS, but actually I am from Ontario.  My X was posted here 5 years ago.  I am enjoying the slower pace of Maritime life!
From what I remember, Kathleen was not murdered at the location where she was found.  If she did in fact walk most of the way home, she would likely have walked through the downtown (two - three blocks), over a small bridge, and up through residential areas.  Generally not a dangerous route.   If she took the bridge that is connected to the downtown main street ( I think it is Dundas St ) then she would have passed several bars and at least one adult entertainment club.  I understand that she did not leave her friends house with anyone so she could have been snatched by someone or offered a ride by someone known to her.
I know Kathleen worked at Stream - a call centre in the city of Belleville.  Belleville is about 15 km east of Trenton and it is common for people in both communities to interact.  Stream was located right on the western boundary of Belleville and employed a large number of people.  As with most call centres, employees did not often stay working there for long.  I am more suspicious that this crime was either random, or, committed by someone who was a work acquaintence.  Good point about people moving around on the base.  I beleive Kathleen was killed in May or June - most military postings dont occur until the summer months once school gets out. My sense, is that is was not a military person.
The crime was extremely violent so I suggest that the perpetrator has a history of problems with a woman - possibly his mother.  I believe that they do have DNA evidence from the sexual assault.  Given Kathleens gentle demeanor, I cant imagine anyone who would delibrately want to cause harm to her.  This bring us back to the possibility of a random act. 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: solvingmystery on November 05, 2009, 10:14:53 AM
I keep checking the crime stoppers site but nothing as of yet :(  How come people are saying she wasn't killed where she was found.  I would just assume she was killed where she was found or very close by because she lived on base and was found on base, and thats where she was going that night - home.  So people think maybe she was picked up, killed and dropped off there?  I never heard anything about that.  Walking alone in the dark for a woman is VERY dangerous.  Trenton is full of weirdo's.  Bad things can happen even in daylight.  I really hope my hunch was right so this can be solved once and for all.  I can only imagine how her family feels after all these years and no suspects! Are the police really doing thier jobs??? I honestly don't think they were thorough enough.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on November 05, 2009, 10:21:12 AM
I don't know why I feel this about Kathleen's death, but I do .... I feel that there was deliberate rage directed at her and that she knew her killer.  ...not necessarily a military person, but someone who worked on the base.  Worst thing here is, what happens with military people "stays with military people".  Seldom does the truth come to light.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: xstitchmumof2 on November 28, 2009, 05:26:07 PM
I have lived here in Trenton (also known now as Quinte West as of Jan 1, 1998) for over 30 years.  I drive by the spot on the Base (just off Curtis Road) where Kathleen was found and I often think of her and wish that progress was being made in finding her killer.  For those of you who were wondering earlier, Curtis Road is a straight stretch of road that runs east/west through the PMQs (married quarters) area of the Base - it starts where Dixon Drive ends - right on the boundry of the Base - and ends at RCAF road.  It is maybe 2km long.  It is not a dark, lonely stretch of road and is very well travelled with a 2 parks and 2 schools right off it.  The area she was found is a small treed field directly behind the back yard area of these PMQs - an area where there are many paths that have been well used over the years and lead to the Zellers Mall off highway 2.  The night of June 20, 2001 was quite warm and a lot of us locals have always wondered how it was that no one heard or saw anything going on.  We figure some of the residents of the PMQs must have had their bedroom windows open that night so surely someone must have witnessed something if she was attacked there?  The Quinte West PD and later the OPP have always refused to provide ANY info as to what exactly happened - COD, whether or not she was sexually assaulted, where she was attacked, etc which has lead to a lot of fear over the years as to what exactly happened.  Most of us feel that the OPP have failed big time in this investigation and the killer has gotten away with it.  The local media brings it up every once in a while especially on the anniversary of it happening and all we ever get is that it is still being investigated.  The only thing we know is that she was visiting friends on the other side of town and they were able to catch her image on store security cameras in the downtown presumably walking back to the Base.  Most locals feel she was probably attacked off the Base and then placed where she was found later.  Most locals also feel she was picked up and attacked by someone she knew and trusted and maybe worked with?  I hope this does get solved one day soon to give her and her family and friends some peace.  We try to keep her memory alive here and there is a cross on the spot where she was found and people often leave her flowers.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on November 28, 2009, 07:18:21 PM
xstitch; if you people don't have the right to push for results here, then who does? >:(  Anywonder you are anxious as to the COD....she may have been killed (by someone she knew and/or trusted....and ergo...they might have done this awful crime out of ear/open-window range ...then dumped her lifeless body in this particular area.  If the authorities are sitting on this file...leaving it lifeless, all hands should demand some further action.  If they can't solve it, they should at least answer as to whether they have some DNA evidence ...which they have not yet acted on.  How are people going to offer tips or help, if the authorities are waiting for the killer to just come forward? and not putting out some info. that could jog people's recollections of that time, and any (out of the ordinary people or happenings around at the time)
For example:
- was there any evidence on her body that was not exactly from the place she was found?
- if there was a rape or particular type of MO, then people around there would have a better idea of who would do that kind of thing.... since it probably was a "local" ....maybe a "newly planted local" with unusual temper or habits that stuck out.
- if the authorities are waiting for traces of the killer to surface, that's not likely to happen unless he does it again.... so why not push them (through the press, to release some information which would allow the public to "notice" any little detail that, while being meaningless to the investigations, could mean something to you local people.)
just my humble opinion, but I say gather some local concerned folks, and have a press conference, expressing your dismay at the lack of progress in this case.....leaving the public nervous for it to happen to another.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on November 30, 2009, 07:46:17 PM
I feel that there are not many qualified investigators in the Belleville area, Quinte-West. I have family living there and as I am aware there have been more then one murder that has happened in the area that has not been solved. I think they need to do a re-enactment of the crime and really put the pressure on to find out what happened to Kathleen. Somebody knows in that area what has happened. A criminal always ends up telling someone, drinking or smoking up or confides to someone. I would say after this period of time that someone in the area absolutely knows who killed Kathleen. A little fear tactic may cause someone to come forward. I mean in the larger cities, they know just how to solve these cases. They need to start from square one again and investigate every person that was initially questioned. The answer is there. 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: alwayswondered on January 04, 2010, 12:34:51 AM
Hi, My husband was based in Trenton at that time. We lived in military housing one block's walk from the site and my place of business was on Dundas behing the grove of trees on Curtis where she was found. I could see the helicopter circling for the investigation the day she was found from the back window of my business.

My children were attending Breadner Elementary school at that time and had to walk by the site. All we were told until three days later was that it was a death by 'heat stroke'. The day the news of the murder was officially released I was horrified as our children were still walking right by the site to get to the park and to school.

The section of Curtis where she was found at that time was a grove of trees on the lake side of the road and a rather barren hill and some woods backing military housing on the other. The houses start about a half block on either side of the site along curtis. It's not a huge isolated stretch (about one block), but the grove itself is rather isolated.

We always heard rumours, but nothing I would dare repeat. I'm sure the police heard the same information as well.

I still check periodically to see if there is anything new on this murder. Especially as my daughter is approaching the same age Kathleen was at the time. 

I grew up on this same base when my dad was in the military and I can remember several incidents - i.e. rapes, robberies, beatings, drugs, etc. happening at the hill site (we called it Hermit's hill at the time). I had thought it was a lot more peaceful and cleaned up when living there with my kids - boy was I wrong!

Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on January 05, 2010, 07:40:17 PM
Alwayswondered, thanks for an update on Kathleen's case. The police may just be connecting dots and may not have enough evidence to charge the person. Sometimes it takes a long time to bring someone to justice. Hopefully they are still investigating this case. Like I said previously, they should go over everything and question those who were initially interviewed and see if the stories are still the same.  ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Chris on January 05, 2010, 11:03:29 PM
Thanks for the info.

It seems to me, the place the body was found then would be known pretty well to locals and that is about it. Being in a place with a lot of mostly single men in there younger years, I am sure a lto of wild stuff happens and hopefully one of these guys will come forward one day and give the police what they need.

chances are, someone knows something but did not say anything then.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lilacorn on January 09, 2010, 05:15:47 PM
Hi to all writers
I too live in Trenton and I drive by the cross almost daily on my way to everywhere. I would like to think that I am not the only one that takes a look and says a sad hello to Kathleen. The stretch of woods where the cross is IS dark. Yes, there are houses on either side of this wooded area but that SPOT IS DARK. What the folks in NB don't realize is that the dividing line between the Base and Trenton is this woodsy park area. City houses, then dark woodsy area, then Base houses, Trenton on the west, the Base on the east. The Zellers that everyone is talking about is to the south of the cross on the other side of the woods. The woods are big enough to have deer and fox residing in them.
We will will not go anywhere in Trenton alone, day or night. I think we have had 5 local murders in 5 or 6 years. As far as I know only Kathleen is unsolved so that means the OPP do do their job with what they have. In fact...either Kathleen or another girl Jennifer (whom I used to babysit) were the first of the sad list that was started...Sarah Martin being one of them as well. These two murders were committed by men known by these young girls and they were caught. And, as someone on here mentioned, that is usually the case. I hope that the investigation is delving into who Kathleen was hanging around at the time but since the other two were solved I assume they are. It is all so sad and appalling....but no one has mentioned that Trenton and Belleville are considered the drug capitals of Ontario...not a word of a lie. Was Kathleen robbed as well? Money for drugs or booze could be an issue here too just as easily as someone from the Base being involved but we won't know until we do know. I really believe the police are doing their job..sometimes it just does not happen quickly and I am sure they are upset about that too, they know what people are thinking and saying...but rest assured they did get the other two guys. I sure hope it gets solved soon as everyone does here in this area. And yes, Kathleen's simple white cross is quite visible for all to see and yes, her name does keep appearing in our local paper...maybe it is only on the anniversary but ask anyone in this area and we all know her name and what happened to her.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on January 09, 2010, 08:03:32 PM
Thanks for not forgetting, we down east are always wondering about Kathleen's case and hope they are investigating relentlessly, because such a long time and no arrests or no news of anything about the case down this way.  8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on January 31, 2010, 05:35:33 PM
I am also a resident of the city of Trenton, where Kathleen MacVicar was murdered.  I remember the day very well.  My heart goes out to her family, I cannot begin to imagine their pain and suffering.
I have been reading through the posts from others from Trenton and they seem to have so much more information regarding Kathleen's murder than has ever been made public. To the best of my knowledge, no cause of death was ever stated and yet some have said she was stabbed. Someone else stated there was evidence she had been killed elsewhere and her body was dumped in Middleton Park.  Someone else remarked that store video caught her on tape, someone else commented Kathleen attended a party on Cresswell Dr and walked the distance to Middleton Park and went on to comment it's a ten minute walk.  To walk to Middleton Park from Cresswell Dr., would take at least 30-45 minutes..at a fast pace.
I am just wondering where these people obtained all their information as Trenton Police and the OPP have never made this information public. 
Personally, I believe Katleen was murdered by someone from the CFB Trenton base, as someone else commented, should that be the case, her death will never be solved as the military will cover it up.  The military has a very long history of covering up..just look at Alexander Kalichuk.   
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on February 01, 2010, 01:34:11 PM
I too in my armchair detective work as I call it, believe Kathleen was murdered by someone in the military. It was stated that she possibly was killed somewhere else and her body placed where it was found. I think the dribbles of information that you are hearing and being place on here are possibly true. There is always a leak in the PD. And also they maybe just putting some of the clues they know of out into the public, because sometimes a murderer cannot shut his mouth. He will drink and get loose lips and possibly say, no, that is not what happened. There is another young lady missing from the Belleville area and she has not been found. I haven't checked as yet to see if there is any new information today. We urge anyone who has information about Kathleen's murder to contact your Crime Stoppers in the Belleville area and give your information. You may save another life, even though you may think your information will not make a difference. The slightest clue can break the case wide open. Please come forward, somebody knows who did this crime. And as we understand it, she was stabbed to death, that was stated in our papers down here in Cape Breton as well.  ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on February 01, 2010, 01:54:47 PM
Military men get away with quite a bit ....as long as not too many people are around when it happens.
There was a woman murdered in Sydney NS back in the 60's or 70's from what I've been told.  Her body was found in an abandoned military vehicle near the Sydney Train Station (is the story I was told) - but that is just a few blocks (backroad so to speak) from Victoria Park, which was a very active military spot at the time.  It is also just a few miles from the Sydney Radar Base, which was also very active at the time. 
I don't think the story even made the papers around here.  However, someone who lives in the Halifax area read it back then, in a Halifax paper....even recongnized and knew the woman.  This person told me Mary was involved with a guy in the military.... a very violent man when drunk.
I really do need to go to a newspaper archives and try to find this story from that Halifax paper.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on February 01, 2010, 05:42:12 PM
Yes, I am aware there is another young lady missing from the Belleville/ Trenton, ( Quinte West) area, I so hope and pray she is found safe. I don't know what is wrong with this area but there is much crime and very little publicity.  Perhaps as a result of being considered to be "Quinte West" who has ever heard of us??  We all became encompassed in this silly name as a result of amalgamation of a number of areas, few and far between.
I stand corrected regarding cause of death of Kathleen MacVicar.  She was stabbed but the rest of the comments posted here regarding attending a party at Cresswell Drive and her body being moved and placed in Middleton Park were never made public..nor either the video of her walking.  There was never any mention of rape, it has been stated she was " sexually assaulted"..there is a difference.
At the time of Kathleen's murder, Trenton ( Quinte West) was in a transition period where as our old police dept was being taken over by the Ontario Provincial Police (OPP) It is my opinion that much information was lost during this time.
And from living here for years and being aware of what the military is able to cover up, yes, it was someone in the military that killed this wonderful young lady and he will never be brought to justice.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on February 01, 2010, 06:18:11 PM
...looks possible that the military is a great "base of operation" for a potential serial killer. Nobody ever checks up on soldiers or police.  I'll bet anytime there's a uniform in any area prior to crimes of any type, that uniform is never even considered....much less questioned or suspected.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on February 01, 2010, 08:56:06 PM
We do hear of some brutal crimes that are done by military people, but usually it is in a foriegn country. But I am willing to bet there is a lot of crime going on. I have friends that are at this time in Afg. working as civilians, not in the forces. And they are currently over there now, they were told to be very careful around the base because it was dangerous to think that crimes were not committed against females on the base. So what does that tell you and they are civies, not in the military. There was someone assaulted and that is why they had to inform them. Hoping that this case gets solved. I will keep checking to see if anything new is posted. I can't believe that it is so long ago that this happened, it seems like yesterday. I really thought it would be solved. ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on February 02, 2010, 05:34:06 PM
Yes, it has been such a long time since Kathleen's murder, nine years this coming June and no one has been brought to justice and I doubt there ever will be.  It has been far too long.   And I feel so very sorry for Kathleen's parents and extended family.
In my opinion, after nearly nine years, if Kathleen was murdered by a local, he or she..( and I understand the "she" is a possibility) would have not been able to keep their mouths shut.
I am convinced she was murdered by someone in the military.
I am certain her family is pushing for answers and a degree of closure but perhaps distance impedes.   
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on February 02, 2010, 06:27:02 PM
Capeheart...thank you for your post and input, I have civilians friends working in Kandahar also and they as well have been warned to keep away from the enlisted military.


Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Ang1979 on February 08, 2010, 10:11:22 AM
I worked with Kathleen at Stream...it's so hard to believe it's been 9 years!!  With the tragic news this morning about the Jessica Lloyd murdered...all I can do is think of Kathleen also.  I know the Base is under investigation at this moment concerning Jessica's case although she was found in Tweed.  Makes me wonder if there's any connection...and if so...I hope both families can finally begin healing!
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: have2say on February 08, 2010, 11:45:43 AM
I worked in the military when she was killed and from the beginning I always "felt" that the person responsible for her death would have had to be a military person..If anyone drives regularly on the base, then you would know that likely there will be a military police cruiser sitting right on the edge of curtis Road..so in my opinion to have done this on the base you would have to not only know your way around but know the people on it. I think we will find out the answer soon after the press release for the arrest made in the case of Jessica Lloyd..
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Sleuth on February 08, 2010, 12:11:03 PM
Yes, let us all pray that the person responsible For Jessica's disappearance and murder gives up any information he/she has on any other cases in the area, for not to put to rest the family's mind of who, why and where but for the safety of other women in the area.

RIP Jessica  :'( :'( :'(

Here is the link with the latest breaking news on Jessica

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3203.0.html
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on February 08, 2010, 12:25:44 PM
I just had a message from my sister who lives in Belleville, she has indicated that this person arrested in the crime against Jessica, could be a suspect in the murder of Kathleen. Also mentioned was another lady in the Belleville area, Brighton, I believe, they are looking at him for that murder also. This is tragic for everyone, especially the family of the murdered women. I do hope that this person is the one they have in custody and that justice will finally be done for these women who were murdered. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: barbara on February 08, 2010, 01:53:47 PM
today in trenton ontario a man named  russell williams 46 of tweed was arressted,for two first degree murders of two women including the one women from brighton,,,he is also in the military......hopefully mc vicars can be solved to....
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on February 08, 2010, 04:43:09 PM
Thank you, havetosay, barbara and capeheart.

I understand the OPP have had this military ( high up) in there sights so to speak for quite some time.  And the military as well has had their suspicions but for how long has not been stated however since they gave up their info they must have been afraid someone would leak something.  But then again this is likely a case of military damage control and they will cover their ass as always.

Base Commander, Russ Williama, CFB Trenton,  has two homes, one in Tweed  ( close to where Jesicca Lloyd lived and the other two single women were sexually assaulted in their homes) and another home in Ottawa where his wife lived..both are being searched..poor wife, she likely had no clue.

Capeheart:  This guy, Russel Williams was here in Trenton when Kathleen was murdered..Belleville Police and the OPP are looking at him for her murder as well.

This may be the tip of the iceburg that breaks Kathleen's case wide open and likey many others here in Canada.  I very doubt Russel Williams is the only enlisted military person to ever commit  crime that the forces were unaware.  They cover up continually.  One, such as myself just has to live in a military town to understand how far reaching the power of military actually is and how much they get away with on a daily basis.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: me on February 08, 2010, 07:35:05 PM
Whoops, I thought I was on Kathleen's thread with my previous post, but I was actually on Jessica's.  I heard a verbal report by a reporter on 570News that they are also looking into whether or not he could have been involved in Kathleen's murder.  However, I've searched the net and cannot find anything to confirm this.  Does anyone know if this is fact or local speculation?  If anyone can find it in writing, would you please post the source, with date and time, if at all possible.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: bebe on February 08, 2010, 08:01:06 PM
It was reported here:

http://www.trentonian.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2440375

Like many who knew Kathleen, I'm waiting for answers.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: earthgirlsreasy on February 08, 2010, 08:10:24 PM
I didn't realize others had thought that Russell Williams may be responsible for Kathleen's murder.  I notified police today to look at Kathleen's murder.  I didn't know Kathleen, but I vividly remember her murder.  It's funny, when Jessica went missing, and the link to Marie France was publicized last week, I immediately thought of Kathleen.  Hopefully we can finally grant the family some solace by knowing that their loved one's murderer is behind bars.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: D1 on February 08, 2010, 10:06:49 PM
This is highly unusual and surprising. Such a high ranking member of the armed forces to be involved in something like this....hmm flew the plane for a former PM and for Royalty....This guys past needs to be checked out real good!!
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: sandrashep on February 08, 2010, 10:27:19 PM
I hope with the breaking news today that maybe Col. Russell Williams had something to do with her murder.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Chris on February 09, 2010, 12:28:08 AM
I hope this is the break needed to solve this case. I know so many people are still shocked by this murder. It does seem rather interesting with the arrest today.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: barbara on February 09, 2010, 10:31:56 AM
kathleen mcvicars body was found here in june 2001  the day would be the 13th or 12th.i have read all these post and it did say years ago that she was found by a person cutting the lawn in middleton park.and that she was found rolled in a carpet, she had been sexually assulted and stabbed to death..they really didnt say much on the case,,,,, i do agree the base will put a hush on this case just like they did kathleen macvicars.....after 9 years i agree it dont seem that long cause we all still talk about it,like it was yesterday.today i,m going to the library to the trentonian archives.and i,m gonna get everything that was published about this case....i know the date was 12 or 13 of june 2001,i hope they have dna from her,i,m sure quinte west police will have the case on there desk,and i,m sure there looking in to see where russell williams was stationed that year,i bet it was right here in trenton,,i,m sure the police will look at other murders here,like the girl who was found beat to death on atkins road about 5 years ago,im sure thats near the base to.....all i know is that QUINTE WEST police are gonna be real busy........i also read a post about us being the capital city of drugs ,i do belive its true,and with all the money project long arm got from that here .should be given to project shadow for there investigation into these murders..everyone has a  what if about this story of kathleen,,,,guess none of us can say what happened,we can only guess and listen to what we hear,but this site is good cause we can all discuss the what if and what nots and keep this going...as for trenton lets all pray for are victims,pray they got the killer and pray for there parents,.and i do pray that opp has not made a quick arresst or any mistakes,hope it not months before we know if hes guilty of kathleen....guess we all have to wait and see,how it turns out.hope there will be closure for kathleen mcvicars parent to.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on February 09, 2010, 01:00:26 PM
Barbara,.....
 yesterday (Feb.9) I either heard somewhere or read somewhere that this guy Williams was stationed here in Trenton at the time of Kathleen's murder.

I understand the former Trenton police completely botched the initial investigation, the scene was contaminated, the lead investigator was not qualified and the OPP was brought in too late. Since the inception of the OPP taking over Trenton police ( thru amalgamation) a special team has been investigating Kathleen's murder.
 
I believe the majority of Trentonians, myself included have always considered Kathleen's murder was committed by someone in the military.  It's such a small town that if it was someone local by now loose lips would have probably sunk them and someone would have turned them in for the reward...that's a LOT of money for anyone but especially here in Trenton where if you are not employed by the base in some capacity,  you work for peanuts.  We have the highest rate in Ontario of those on assistance as well as being the drug capital of Ontario.  We even have Opium showing up on the streets here now..it's derived from Poppies..in Afghanistan.  Every flight to and from Afghanistan departs and arrives at CFB Trenton.

From what I have gathered, the OPP have solid evidence against this Williams guy at least for the murders of Jessica Lloyd and Marie Comeau.  Apparently the OPP had him on their radar for quite sometime regarding Ms. Comeau.  I don't think the military will be able to cover this up as they have done in the past with other "problem" members.

Hopefully, for the sake of Kathleen's family this guy will do the right thing and confess.

Pretty bold guy though isn't he?  But with the perfect set up, a home in Ottawa where his wife resides and works, luxury cottage on Lake Stoko, near Tweed and the papers say a home in Trenton as well ??? He's been operating with impunity and being the big brass on base, giving interviews, being in the public eye..who woulda thunk??  It was hide in plain sight!  In my opinion he figured he would never be caught..but then he got sloppy with the murder of Corporal Marie Comeau..a woman who worked under him. 

I can't remember, who was the woman who was beaten to death and found on Aikens Rd, Trenton?

Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on February 09, 2010, 01:11:10 PM
Barbara, I am kind of confused by the start of your post. You indicated that someone was wrapped in a rug, as you did not separate I thought you meant Kathleen. But I do believe you mean the person on Aitken Road (sic). I am sure that the police probably will investigate him for Kathleen and it sure looks like he is the person who committed the crime. I would say that if all of these charges that have been laid against him were done in one day, imagine what will come up when they start digging. Of course, he has  been caught now and his days of committing crimes are over. He may just glorify himself and confess every crime he has ever committed. I do believe he is a serial killer. I mean he just didn't start doing this overnight. He possibly has been at this for a long time. There are several crimes in Ottawa that have not been solved and some bear a similarity to these crimes in Belleville and surrounding areas. Hopefully we will have closure on Kathleen's murder. I feel so badly for the families, because of the senseless act of violence against these women.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: debbiec on February 09, 2010, 01:26:05 PM

Quote
I do believe he is a serial killer.

If Williams is found guilty of the two murders he is charged with, and is in fact guilty of the murder of Kathleen MacVicar, according to what information I could find, he will be considered a serial killer.

Who knows how many more victims they will find?
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Some_Girl on February 09, 2010, 03:02:45 PM
I was born and raised in Trenton, lived there all my life until this past August. There are some factual misconceptions here. I lived on Creswell Dr back at the time when she was killed. The place where she was found is entirely consistent with a walking route anyone would take if travelling from Creswell dr to the PMQ's. I have walked it many times myself when going to visit friends living in the PMQ's. At a normal rate of speed this would take you 25 - 30 mins tops. Yes, the woods are dark there, but it is not uncommon to travel that area by night. Nor would it be uncommon to meet up with anyone else travelling that route. People who have always lived in Trenton do not see a distinction between the property lines. The base is Trenton, and we are the base. She was captured on video coming through the downtown core, policed stated as much at the time. It is believed she was killed in or about the vicinity her body was found. The woman found on Aikens road's death nobody seems to know much about, but it was always heavily rumored to be a drug related crime. The poster who mentioned the rug may be confusing elements of Jennifer Boczylo's murder as her body was indeed found wrapped in a rug from her apartment. Her killer has been apprehended. Whether or not Russell Williams had anything to do with Kathleen's death remains to be seen, it would be nice for her family to finally have some answers but I suspect he is not. Though most residents will tell you they have always believed her killer to be a military man. Maybe not someone who knew her per se but someone who definitely had contact with her in some way.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on February 09, 2010, 03:45:19 PM
I am really very confused as there have been 3 murders of young women here in Trenton in the past few years.  In two of the three cases there have been arrests.  Kathleen MacVicars murder has still to target a suspect.
I live here as well and I have yet to hear of any of these three vicitims being found wrapped in a rug. If anyone has a media link to share, I would appreciate it.
Police have been very tight lipped regarding Kathleen, I heard rumours of a video but nothing confirmed by the Trenton police.  anyone know of the name of the establishment who caught her on video?
As for the female found beaten to death on Aikens Rd and it being drug related.  Has she ever been identified?  And if in fact this was considered drug related does this mean the police should feel a further investigation is unwarranted??? These poor souls tend to go by the wayside in any police investigation..this is why Robert Picton got away with murder for so long..he targeted the throw aways from our society.   
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Some_Girl on February 09, 2010, 04:05:29 PM
I don't know that it was reported about the rug in media news outlets. Jennifer was a friend of and worked with my sister, and lived next door to another couple I knew. It was through my sister that I was told her body was found wrapped in a lightweight throw rug her killer had used in order to carry her down the stairs. I don't believe the police ever confirmed which camera caught Kathleen, but all of the major banks in the downtown core have video surveillance in place as well as the jewelery store. Searching back issues of the Trentonian should provide you with their exact comments on the matter. Certainly nobody said the woman on found on Aikens Rd's death did not warrant further investigation. To my knowledge she was in fact identified and there were POI in the case. I am simply unable to recall her name. There have in fact been more than 3 murders of women in Trenton in the last decade, you just don't always hear about them.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Some_Girl on February 09, 2010, 04:12:23 PM
Here is some info on the woman found on Aikens Rd; her name was Deborah Larigee

http://ottawastart.com/arc6-2003.php
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on February 09, 2010, 04:13:59 PM
THIS NEWS WAS ON AT 6:00, PLEASE DISREGARD THIS POST AS IT WAS NOTED ON CBC NEWS THAT THEY ARE REOPENING THE CASE OF KATHLEEN AND IT LOOKS LIKE THEY ARE LOOKING AT WILLIAMS. IT IS TWO DIFFERENT NEWS BROADCAST OF DIFFERENT STATIONS AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO THINK. SORRY. I REMOVED THE POST I HAD HERE. BUT THEY DID SAY THEY ARE LOOKING AT HIM FOR THE MURDERS OF THREE FEMALES IN HALIFAX WHEN HE WAS STATIONED THERE.  ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lilacorn on February 09, 2010, 04:31:32 PM
Wow, so much heartache and confusion. Good news that the murderer of Marie France and Jessica is behind bars. Sad news that he is not responsible for Kathleen's death...I am sure everyone within a 100 mile area was hoping it was so. I find it odd that I now have some kind of 'almost connection' to 3 of the victims...not a nice connection to have to beautiful young women that have been taken far too soon by brutality. I used to babysit Jennifer. I am best friends with a good friend/co-worker of Marie France. And today I found out that another close friends grandson dated Jessica for a while a few years ago. Again, as all Trentonians, Brightonians, and Bellevinians are saying and being from Trenton my first reaction was 'good god, HE did it?' We all tend to think of sick murderers 'looking' the part and that just isn't so, look back at Paul Bernardo. Charming, good looking....and as someone on here just said, hide in full sight. This Williams, and I will not honor his title anymore, was everywhere, visible, met new women/young girls daily for years...that is the scary part. He would meet them in bars and grocery stores. We run into our Air Force members here daily as we go about. How many others are there out there that he sexually assaulted like the two in Tweed in September? Or murdered around the world? The good thing is that now all the crimes in the towns he's ever flown into or worked out of or could drive to easily are being reinvestigated. But, sadly and scarily, someone is still out there that murdered Kathleen.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on February 09, 2010, 04:41:01 PM
Hi Lilacorn, yes, it is scary that these people can hide in plain sight. I am so upset by the police not making it known in September what a violent person that was out there breaking into homes and tying people up. This should have been noted then for people not to stay alone. These women would possibly be alive now if they had made the particulars known about these violent assaults. These women who were assaulted will be in fear for the rest of their lives, it is a miracle he did not kill them. They will never get over that fear of being assaulted in such a violent manner. They will even be in more of a panic now that they know that he was a killer and how lucky they were to get away with their lives. But the people in Belleville still have to be cautious, because the killer of Kathleen is still out there. Maybe it was someone who was passing through, that was on the base as a guest of the military and flew out the next day. Everyone who was there and were flying out the next day should have had to submit their DNA. I feel badly that Kathleen's case is back in the cold cases again. ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: barbara on February 09, 2010, 05:34:17 PM
i was really hoping there was going to be closure for the family,  and thank you for finding the article on laragee,the girl from atkins road,,,,,and i do agree ,,,,just because you choose a life of drugs or your a hooker whatever,,this girl was still someones daughter,,,,i like to look at these victims as people,makes me sad..2 people were charged with that murder and aqquitted because police acted to quick to make a arresst,when they were released by judge hunter in belleville ,i do remember clearly the judge saying he had to release these men,because people who are arrested,cant be tried on hear say,and police had no evidence.......i do agree with one person on here,lousy police work.. on there behalf ,on kathleen,another person said it was never published about how kathleen mc vicars died, well its in the paper today,and it true,it,s been published so we  are not wrong,,when people are murderd,the police should step aside and let the experts do there job,in some cases to many police work the case,opp here are not experts here ...and the people of trenton on here .you have to agree with me,they called in almost 200 police officiers in there 6 millon dollar bust here,wonder how many officers are on this case,,,who knows,but i think project shadow should be getting that funding money not long arm.just my opinion,dont jump down my throat,,,,,we all have are right to are opinions.i was really hoping this was gonna be a closure for the mcvicar family,and closure for trenton too..
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on February 09, 2010, 05:55:37 PM
Yes, folks as I stated, these folks " hide in plain sight'  that's what makes them so good at what they do.  This guy, Williams was an expert. He is a sociopath.  

Has it really been confirmed he has no connection to the murder of Kathleen?  Did the OPP not yesterday contact her mother Coleen and made her aware Russ Williams was a suspect in her daughter's murder?  What happened between then and now? What are they basing their facts on..whether he was posted here ( as the OPP said yesterday) or some fact provided by the military? You just watch, the military will fudge records left front and center to clear their "Golden Boy"  Big posting to CFB Trenton, Canada's largest base in Canada.  The fed's have been touting this for the last few years and there is no way they will permit all the millions and federal glory that have gone into this place to be tarnished.

One has to only live here to be aware of the pull the military has in this town.  The mayor of Trenton, John Williams ( no relation) mentioned the people of Trenton are "shocked" at Williams arrest..he went on further to state Trentonians have a "love" relationship with the military here.  Since 2/3rd of the population is military or retired military I would guess this is his source of info..perhaps he should ask the rest of we chumps.  

They so have to get this guy for Kathleen cause He was here, perhaps not that the OPP can yet prove but he was here..passing through, at that time.  
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on February 09, 2010, 06:43:41 PM
I removed the post related to Williams not being investigated. The Global news indicated that he wasn't a suspect and now after watching CBC news, the police are reopening Kathleen's case and possibly are looking at Williams. I wish the networks would get their stories straight. Sorry, but I only went by the broadcast that was on Global. So we have hope now that he possibly did kill Kathleen. Hopefully there will be answers. ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: barbara on February 09, 2010, 08:56:05 PM
i also heard that on the news..i guess we still have hope it will be solved..i havent heard yet if he was working the base here in 2001,,,,,i dont think the army base here,will cover him for this type of crime.and i dont feel the army is no way responsible for russell williams..he,s reasponsible for his own actions,no matter what job he had , he,s a killer,i do agree about the population thing with the military,i,m sure military police and trenton opp are very busy this week
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on February 10, 2010, 08:28:17 AM
The news is very confusing, again this morning there was something on the news and I am afraid to post it, because it could be wrong. I will wait a few more days because of conflicting reports. Even on our news this a.m. it was confusing. So until they get things straight I will just let it ride for now and post in future on the information when it has been ironed out. ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on February 10, 2010, 10:02:45 AM
Well, I guess it is safe to post the latest. I just heard on our local news on the radio a clip from the OPP: The officer stated that there was a false report given in relation to the fact the Mr. Williams was ruled out as a suspect. The officer stated that they have not looked at any other unsolved murder cases in relation to Mr. Williams. The officer stated that they are concentrating at this time on the incidents that he has been charged with. So they will be looking at other cases, I guess, but right now they are focusing on what he has been charged with. So that clears up a bit of confusion. 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Shwa on February 10, 2010, 11:58:36 AM
But remember - Williams can be Kathleen's killer and still not be proven in court.  Even though we may not know, the killer could still be in jail.

In the case of Deborah Larigee, it seems that they know who did it, but don't have enough evidence:

http://www.ottawamenscentre.com/news/20050819_man.htm

And another story about some murders in Quinte West from 2008:

http://www.trentonian.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?archive=true&e=894551
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on February 10, 2010, 02:54:10 PM
capeheart and other members:

Hang in there, at the moment the OPP is very busy with the case at hand but Williams is behind bars and given the nature of his crimes, I doubt bail will be granted.  So for the time being, the public and young, single women living alone are safe.  And they are looking at him into Kathleen's murder, it's just difficult to track where he has been and when.  Williams has been quite high up in the military for a number of years, he has been hop scotching everywhere.  It would be nothing to catch a flight to Trenton for a day or so.  But surely the military keeps a manifest..I would imagine given the nature of the charges he is facing, they will cough this up to the OPP. 

With the exception of Kathleen's murder the OPP made very quick arrests in the murders of the other two girls.  Kathleen's is the only one to remain unsolved and to have her remains dumped on military property says volumes.   
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on February 10, 2010, 04:05:29 PM
capeheart,  according to this Toronto Star article Williams WAS here in Trenton at the time of Kathleen's murder.

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/763100--what-did-military-radar-miss?bn=1
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Alex on February 10, 2010, 04:16:32 PM
You just watch, the military will fudge records left front and center to clear their "Golden Boy"  Big posting to CFB Trenton, Canada's largest base in Canada.  The fed's have been touting this for the last few years and there is no way they will permit all the millions and federal glory that have gone into this place to be tarnished.

One has to only live here to be aware of the pull the military has in this town.  The mayor of Trenton, John Williams ( no relation) mentioned the people of Trenton are "shocked" at Williams arrest..he went on further to state Trentonians have a "love" relationship with the military here.  Since 2/3rd of the population is military or retired military I would guess this is his source of info..perhaps he should ask the rest of we chumps.

You sir, are a jackass.  Your personal delusions and biases are your own problem - do NOT project them on to the rest of the community.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on February 10, 2010, 04:41:30 PM
Alex; I don't know how long you've been partaking in comments on this forum.  Nonetheless, regulars here have watched/read hundreds, and thousands, of news articles, personal stories, documentaries ... clearly baring the bones of cover-up and control/corruption on the part of authorities (including police, government officials, and yes...military too - even religious sects) not even well covering-up! infact - they do it "cocky" - with disregard for the members of the general public owning and/or using common sense or a brain.  Those in the position of authority and control in this country are being exposed daily.  ....... they are power crazy; and use their power loosely. ...... those people, Alex, are the real jackasses.   There are people shot down by police, tazered to the point of damage, jailed and; probably many would be dead if we had the "death penalty".  Yet, those in power lie, cheat steal, beat, and kill when they feel it necessary or it suits their needs.  There are actually more criminals in power than in prison imho.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on February 10, 2010, 05:45:56 PM
Well said, lostlinganer, as for Alex..he just joined today...

But perhaps I was a little heavy handed in my original post.  However, one only has to live in this town and be a civilian to know full well the power of the military. I have lived here a very long time.

The bottom line is Kathleen MacVicar, aged 19 was stabbed to death and found on base property.  Her murder June 13, 2001 has remained unsolved, due in part by inept (local) police and the (main) fact her body was found ON the base.  Her family and friends need closure..with Willams arrest I hope Kathleen's murder will be solved as well as others across Canada.

My heart goes out to them all..this monster has destroyed so many lives his wife's included. 


Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Alex on February 10, 2010, 06:06:22 PM
regulars here have watched/read hundreds, and thousands, of news articles, personal stories, documentaries ... clearly baring the bones of cover-up and control/corruption on the part of authorities (including police, government officials, and yes...military too - even religious sects) not even well covering-up!

Please take your conspiracy theories elsewhere.  This forum is hardly the place for such nonsense.

infact - they do it "cocky" - with disregard for the members of the general public owning and/or using common sense or a brain.

I'd say that - judging by comments such as yours - such an attitude would be entirely justified.  Anyone capable of "detecting" a conspiracy in the investigation of Russ Williams is clearly an individual who is lacking a few billion neurons.  The military been completely open about the case, and the shock and outrage which this event has generated within the defense community should be obvious to anyone.  This "man" has betrayed the men and women under his command, and the very principles of the institution in which they serve.  If he were let out on bail, chances are he'd be lynched by his own troops.  Given these facts, it's safe to conclude that anyone who sees conspiracy in this case would be completely incapable of detecting an actual conspiracy.  You wouldn't even know where to look.



But perhaps I was a little heavy handed in my original post.  However, one only has to live in this town and be a civilian to know full well the power of the military. I have lived here a very long time.

No.  One has to be a paranoid-delusional maniac.  Rest assured that the vast majority of the community disagrees with your assessment.  You've made repeated allegations and insinuations without bothering to offer a shred of evidence.  You've also been shown to be wrong about the details of these cases, as well as about the geography of Trenton.  You are, in short, an ignoramus with delusions of persecution, inventing silly stories about an organization of which you know nothing.  I suggest that, in the future, you confine your comments to areas on which you posses some knowledge, no matter how few they may be.

As for the murder of Kathleen MacVicar ... if Russ Williams is indeed responsible for her death, the details will emerge in due course.  Speculating is pointless without more information.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Militarybrat on February 10, 2010, 06:30:43 PM
Thank You Alex.  There has been alot of inaccuracies on this link.  We have to remember that they are just peoples opinions and NOT fact.
The base is a very important part of Trenton.  Ask any business owner here.   Williams is the Monster. Not the military, or Trenton.
My heart goes out to all the families who this monster ripped apart.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on February 10, 2010, 06:45:42 PM
Alex, what we are trying to say in just a few words is: not enough was done to solve Kathleen's murder, because it happened on a military property. We maybe speculating, but nine years is a heck of a long time without anybody being even a suspect in this case. Belleville is a small city, I've been there and have relatives living there. Actually they have been previously in the military. So when you say we are speculating and exaggerating, we are not. More should have been done to solve Kathleen's murder. And possibly because her parents are in C.B. that nobody was there to keep after the police and keep the case on the front burner. And there are resources up the ying yang to solve anything that happens on a military base. Those are my comments and I'm sticking to them. And using profanity and being lippy is not going to get you anywhere here. We are releasing our feelings about what has happened. I am just happy that this man is behind bars and that the people in his area are safe, women especially. And how do we know, he may have committed other crimes we do not even know about as yet. ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on February 10, 2010, 06:48:25 PM
Alex..get a grip.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Sleuth on February 10, 2010, 07:45:17 PM
Could every one please be tolerant of others opinion's. And please don't call one another names, there is no need for it. We all realize it is an emotional time for those involved and close to the families and Military. For the new poster's please have a little respect for those who do know what they are talking about. New poster's may be upset by what is being posted but different views and insight is what this board is all about. A one time nasty post and run is not nice.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Militarybrat on February 10, 2010, 08:32:33 PM
Yes people are very emotional right now.  We in Trenton have lived with this a long time.  We all hoped and prayed that Kathleen's murderer would be found and brought to justice.  She has never been forgotten.  Nor, will she ever be.  I know I put my recycling out the night she was murdered and I kept thinking maybe she walked by me (as I live close to Creswell Drive).  I have prayed many nights for her family.  We are all waiting to hear, if the MONSTER, is the one responsible for her death. 
I know that it was not the Military police that investigated her murder. There was a special task force set up by the then, Trenton Police (now Quinte West OPP).  Alot of local businesses contributed to a Reward Fund for any information leading to the arrest, however, it was never claimed.  Maybe and hopefully this horrific murder will now be solved.
It will not bring anyone joy, but maybe a little peace of mind, and some closure for Kathleen's family and friends. 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Alex on February 10, 2010, 09:00:40 PM
"capeheart":

Alex, what we are trying to say in just a few words is: not enough was done to solve Kathleen's murder, because it happened on a military property.

And what I am trying to say in just a few words is:

You are full of crap.

You're making malicious accusations based on ignorance and paranoia.  You've yet to offer any actual evidence of your claims.

Belleville is a small city, I've been there and have relatives living there.

Quinte West is the 39th largest metropolitan area in Canada.  Belleville is the 95th largest city.  With a population of 48,821 (91,518 in the metropolitan area), it's hardly small.

So when you say we are speculating and exaggerating, we are not.

Then provide some evidence to back up your assertions.

And using profanity and being lippy is not going to get you anywhere here. We are releasing our feelings about what has happened.

That's a cute way of admitting that you're making things up.  I don't care what your "feelings" are - criminal investigations are solved by hard work and research, and convictions are made based on irrefutable evidence.  Feelings don't have anything to do with it.

Also, I don't think the word "profanity" or the phrase "being lippy" mean what you think they mean.


"Sleuth":

Could every one please be tolerant of others opinion's.

No.

There is absolutely no reason why anyone should "be tolerant" of the opinion that the military is a gang of rapists and murderers who oppress the civilian populace and cover up each others crimes.  Such an opinion is asinine, and deserves only derision and ridicule.  It is foolish beyond beliefs for you to ask me to be tolerant of an intolerant opinion.

For the new poster's please have a little respect for those who do know what they are talking about.

On that, we can completely agree.  I'll let you know as soon as I see one.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: debbiec on February 10, 2010, 09:29:12 PM

Please try to remember that this thread is for Kathleen MacVicar. It is important to stay focused on her.   There is room here for everyone to respectfully express their opinions, but don't see that arguing is productive. This is an emotional time for ALL involved. Perhaps we can show tolerance for each other whether we agree or not.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on February 10, 2010, 09:57:34 PM
Nobody on here has stated that the military is a bunch of rapeists  and murderers, that is your quote.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Militarybrat on February 10, 2010, 11:29:38 PM
This is from the Toronto Sun, Wed. Feb. 10/10
OPP to reopen 2001 case

Family members are holding their breath as the OPP announced Tuesday they'll  again probe the death of Kathleen MacVicar.
"We are not getting our hopes up, but we are pleased that it is happening." Colleen MacVicar, mother of the murdered 19 year old, said from her home in Glace Bay, N.S. MacVicar said the news was confirmed Tuesday when she received a phone call from a high ranking OPP official.  "He told me that there is a lot of work to do, but he wanted us to know that they will be searching for links," she said.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: unforgiveable on February 11, 2010, 09:51:58 AM
I am soo tired of hearing people say she was leaving a party that night.  It was a Wednesday night and NO we weren't partying, I was present, there was no party we were simply relaxing at my relatives residence... We offered her a ride home and she stated she was going to leave later than us.  There was no alchool involved just simply laughs and a lot of them!  Kathleen was one of the funniest people I've met in my life and I do not want her to have a party person reputation, she was much more than that!
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on February 11, 2010, 11:23:38 AM
Unforgiveable, we did not hear that she was at a party. We understood she was just visiting. There was no information that she had been at a party, at least in our news down in this area. We just understood she was walking home from visiting friends and that is how it was understood. I don't know who has indicated she was partying, but it sure is a misunderstanding as far as we know. 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: D1 on February 11, 2010, 03:59:55 PM
This has become an ugly little discussion. The military "family" has obviously been dealt a blow by these recent developments. Although it was caused by the actions of just one man, some general comments have left Alex feeling like someone just urinated in his cheerios. It's understandable, but this is the thread for a murdered girl and all of this has become quite inappropriate. Maybe Alex has something to say and offer, may I suggest he move his comments over to the thread about the man, serial killer Russel Williams. I'm sure he will find something there to sink his teeth into. Who knows we might even learn something..
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3211.0.html (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/topic,3211.0.html)
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on February 11, 2010, 04:22:45 PM
 unforgivable:

I had read somewhere Kathleen had attended a party before she was murdered. It may have been in the Toronto Sun or perhaps our local paper, the Trentonian, I can't recall..it was so long ago. It was written from the perspective from the police trying to trace her movements. The article didn't leave me with the impression she was a wild young girl, just a young 19 yr old hanging out with friends on a summer evening as would be expected.  At the time of Kathleen's murder my son was also 19, he would often get together with his friends..just hanging out, talking, laughing..no alcohol involved just good kids having a great time with friends.

It must be a terrible thing to have to live with, thinking that "if only" she had accepted that ride from you.  I'm sorry, I truly am.  We all lost something with Kathleen's senseless murder, her family, her friends as well as this small town.    
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Woodland on February 11, 2010, 05:10:09 PM
Good for you D1 - so far you have said it best of all, imo.  We can all learn from everyone - sometimes just a little, sometimes quite alot.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: D1 on February 13, 2010, 04:59:08 AM
 I get it Alex and Perdy..You may have noticed, no one is saying anything on here anymore..

It has been said elsewhere:

Quote
What is obvious is how hard it is for everyone to believe that someone in a position like this could be involved in crimes like these. That alone has likely hampered the investigation in the past. But thats not to say the military is the problem. The same could be said if he were a top public figure in a large corporation or a even some prominent politician who's neighbor had been murdered. The position alone is enough to keep most sane persons from looking too closely at the man

There are several new threads now for more general discussions about things that have no need to be left here. No disrespect intended toward Kathleen..please carry on tell us more about her..
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/board,88.0.html (http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php/board,88.0.html)



Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: SAP on February 13, 2010, 10:40:21 AM
http://news.globaltv.com/Video+Russell+Williams+Ottawa+home/2540874/story.html?tab=VID

In short, Russel Williams ruled out in Kathlee's murder.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Concerned on February 13, 2010, 11:21:57 AM
To the family of Kathleen MacVicar, I'm sorry to hear the report that the authorities were not able to find a connection between Williams and your Kathleen. It must be heart-wrenching to have lost Kathleen. I will pray that you find resolve as this must be so difficult for your family.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on February 13, 2010, 11:40:04 AM
Somehow or another, I did not really believe that Williams was involved in Kathleen's murder. I believe it was someone who was moving on and it was a random act of violence. I am so devastated for Colleen and the family, that there is no answers for them at this time. And now that the focus is on Williams for other crimes. Kathleen's case will once again be put on hold. My prayers to her mom and all Kathleen's friends in Glace Bay and surrounding area. RIP Kathleen.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Militarybrat on February 14, 2010, 02:21:04 AM
Okay, I am confused.  The link that SAP posted was dated Tues. Feb 9/10, however, on Feb 10/10 (Toronto Sun) it was reported that they were investigating him as a suspect in Kathleen's murder.  Can anyone clear this up for me?  Thanks.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Chris on February 15, 2010, 02:25:20 AM
Well I guess that measn this case is still unsolved. I think Williams is confessing to crimes and this one he must have denied and there probably is some kind of evidnece the police are aware of that clears him too.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on February 17, 2010, 04:20:43 PM
I personally, don't really think the OPP have entirely cleared a member of the military as being responsible for Kathleen's murder.  Given what Williams has admitted to and is charged with, could it be that far fetched..given the circumstances that have unfolded within the past 2 weeks.
It has been mentioned here by those that seemed to know Kathleen , spent time with her on that last night and were aware on her walk back home from the gathering at Cresswell Drive, she was picked up on video at a half way point.  It seemed Kathleen, took the long route, staying close to the main street here in Trenton.  She could have cut behind the stores and gone through Centennial Park and the Community Gardens..it would have been so much shorter..but she stayed on the main routes.
There was mention there was a carnival happening in Trenton at the time of her murder and it was held in Centennial Park/ Community gardens.. there was speculation at the time that Kathleen was murdered by a carnie person.  I would imagine the police at the time would have been able to trace the employees.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: jobo on February 17, 2010, 05:47:57 PM
I have a hard time believing that someone from outside the military grounds would commit MacVicar's murder, I just can't see some civilian leaving their victim on the base, wouldn't they be afraid of surveilance?  Whereas, someone familiar with the set-up of the base would know if there were cameras or not.  I'm glad to hear the OPP haven't ruled out the base.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on February 17, 2010, 05:55:43 PM
Jobo, I see what you mean there. They would know particularly where surveillance was and where it wasn't. Also what are the chances of someone being in that area unless they lived close by or were there on military manuvers from other bases. It does come back to someone on the base, as I see it. Maybe I'm wrong, but it just gets me thinking it is someone military that has committed the crime. Nobody should be ruled out that lived in that area, everyone is a suspect when they are trying to solve a crime. ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on February 23, 2010, 03:58:32 PM
Jobo, I am in complete agreement.  I have never doubted Kathleen was murdered either BY a military person or someone who works for the military..in perhaps a civilian capacity.  Someone who knew the Trenton base area well and were assured they would not be caught by routine military patrols when they dumped her body.   

I have a hard time believing that someone from outside the military grounds would commit MacVicar's murder, I just can't see some civilian leaving their victim on the base, wouldn't they be afraid of surveilance?  Whereas, someone familiar with the set-up of the base would know if there were cameras or not.  I'm glad to hear the OPP haven't ruled out the base.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on February 27, 2010, 11:20:35 AM
I'm just hoping that all the DNA collected at the crime scene will one day convict the person who took Kathleen's life. There are so many unsolved in Canada and I do hope there is some databank for DNA and that things are done to solve these crimes. So much time has gone by and no answers. ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on February 27, 2010, 12:14:11 PM
cape; you would think that by now, there would have been some digging by the press, into what the DNA revealed ....I mean: Was is useful.  Kathleen's family must still be in a terrible state of dismay about the lack of effort to find their daughter's murderer.  It's annoying us terribly; just think how that poor family feels! :'(  In light of the Williams murders, I think it's time they expanded their "possible suspect list" and/or ask for volunteers who were known to be around her last, to donate DNA for elimination.  Even if it's not someoe she was seen with before, who did this to her, it would have to "rattle" the guilty one to know that investigators are getting "aggressive about this case.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on March 01, 2010, 04:36:46 PM
Am, I am just thinking that there must have been DNA left at the scene. Because with so much high technology in the DNA world now, it is pretty rare that there would be nothing there. I don't believe the police are telling us anything about DNA, but I feel there was. Because of the fact that Williams has been ruled out in the Kathleen's murder, it must have been through forensics that he was eliminated. I'm sure they're not going to take his word for not being involved. If there isn't a databank in Canada, there definitely should be. Hoping that the OPP are not sitting back on Kathleen's case. Lost, you are correct, we down here are always thinking and wondering about why Kathleen's murder is taking so long to solve. We are now into 2010 and this is so sad that nothing has been done to bring the murderer to justice. 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on March 03, 2010, 04:27:32 PM
cape,  I haven't read/heard anything regarding DNA obtained from Kathleen's body.  Being a local here in Trenton and having a semi link to the OPP, I am aware the crime scene was compromised..It could have been as a result of a bit of a piddling contest between the military and the local Trenton constabulary.  It took days before the local police force called in the OPP.  It is my understanding much was lost during this precious time.

Jobo mentioned the police will be unable to collect DNA from Williams until he is convicted of crimes charged. ( this is in the Wiliams section)  This I did not know.  If so, I doubt DNA is the reason he has eliminated him in Kathleen's murder.  Actually, I don't think he has been entirely eliminated... there are conflicting reports as to where he actually WAS when Kathleen was murdered.

We truly need a DNA Databank here in Canada, it is my understanding that one must be convicted  and deemed to be " dangerous offender" like Bernardo to have ones DNA entered.  There is no hope in Hell,  Bernardo will ever see the light of day, except for one hour in 24 so really what's the point?

I know it's been a very long time since Kathleen's murder and no one  to date has been charged.  I still maintain Kathleen's killer is a military person.   


   
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: jobo on March 03, 2010, 06:57:45 PM
Regarding the DNA....I suppose I should also say that a person can voluntarily give a sample, otherwise, from what I understand, they'd have to be convicted, before they have to give a sample. 
I agree with you Capeheart, the killer of Kathleen, has to be someone with a connection with the base.  Wonder if there is still a "piddling contest" going on, as you say, because this is another case that should have been solved pretty quick.. :-\ there's the military, the OPP, and the local police, all these high payed heads can't get it together...
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on March 03, 2010, 07:01:30 PM
Jobo, I know what you are saying. Most police departments do not share all their information, for what reason I don't know. Somehow we always hear of that, it is their case, so who cares as long as the case is solved. A long time without any news or suspects. Hard for the people who knew her in the community of Belleville and hard for the family back home. Sure hope the OPP and all departments are working on solving her murder. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on March 04, 2010, 11:59:01 AM

I came across this article about Kathleen.  It seems Williams was posted between the Ottawa base and CFB Trenton at the time of Kathleen's murder.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Sidebar+Cold+Cases/2547411/story.html
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on March 04, 2010, 12:05:27 PM
This is a Facebook page for Kathleen

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=298675048918&ref=nf
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on March 04, 2010, 06:29:53 PM
Jobo, I need to clarify something..in 1998, the powers that be here in Trenton, decided we would become an amalgated city, and number of small communities were swallowed up and the former town became " Quinte West"

We had a very small police force, very untrained and an old boys club..the local mayor was best friend's with the police chief..it was not what you knew but WHO you knew.  You get the picture?  Between the mayor, his cabinet and minions, the local police and the military this town was owned.   With the military having the most clout.

Town council fought hard against the OPP taking over the lax Trenton police force but this didn't happen until AFTER Kathleen's murder.  Currently we have just one police force, the OPP and that gawd for that as any long term resident, such as myself would tell you the former Trenton Police force couldn't catch a cold!

Unfortunately, Kathleen was murdered a few months prior to the OPP take over.  Trenton police force  were in over their heads and had no clue, it is my understanding that although the police station is a km away it took quite some time before they arrived..perhaps as a direct result of Kathleen's body being found on military property.  A piddling contest??

Whatever the case, valuable information was lost or not recovered but days later, the OPP was called in.  The OPP took it from there, they have 2 special investigators assigned to her case. I would imagine they are now seriously looking at Williams as he was here at the time of Kathleen's murder.

As a footnote, since Kathleen's murder, the former Trenton Police Chief has been removed from duty, a number of his officers have been demoted most notably the initial 'lead' investigator in Kathleen's murder.  Since the OPP have taken over here, a number of charges of corruption were brought against the former Trenton police force..they seemed to go quietly into the night.  The major was turfed and we now seem to have a degree of accountability here thanks to the OPP.

I believe, given the circumstances surrounding Williams, he will either be charged with Kathleen's death or they will finally arrest another military person. 

Am 

   
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on March 04, 2010, 07:00:07 PM
Am, that is very interesting information about the police in that area. Now that things have been cleaned up, maybe there will be some success in solving Kathleen's murder. We will just have to wait and see, sometimes it seems like justice takes an eternity. 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: jobo on March 04, 2010, 07:45:47 PM
Yes, it would be nice to have more answers now!  And wow, I wish I knew the dynamics of the "authorities" around here, like you know yours, amIam....but, on the other hand if I did, I'd probably have to start a new thread called, "Rants".  We are policed by the OPP, where I live, but we never see them unless we call.  Or speed. lol
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on March 05, 2010, 04:44:08 PM
cape,..sadly Kathleen's murder investigation was a mess from the very beginning, I don't who called in the OPP but I was very glad to see those OPP Forensic vans and crusiers around the Trenton Police station a few weeks later.  Currently, the OPP have a special unit assigned to Kathleen's case, it's called Project Shadow. it's an active unit, probably more active now since Williams arrest as it's been determined he was posted to both the Ottawa base as well as CFB Trenton during that time frame.

Since Kathleen's murder ( and since the OPP have taken over here) we have had 2 further murders of young girls.  In both cases, arrests were made quickly.  Last weekend there was a homocide of a 48 yr old woman, her alleged killers were caught within hours. 

I so hope the OPP here have enough evidence to lay further charges against Williams, it's been so very long.  I feel for her family.

Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on March 05, 2010, 06:13:09 PM
Jobo, I am not a "local" Trenton resident, I am a Toronto transplant having moved here to retire years ago.  At the time of my purchase I was unaware of the corruption in this town.  The crime and drug rate is another story..we have the highest drug rate in all of Eastern Ontario. Opium is now on the streets here, opium is derived from poppies, poppies grow in Afghanistan. ALL flight to and from Afganistan arrive and leave through only one base in Canada, here at CFB Trenton.

This town is divided into two very distinct populations, the haves and the have nots.  There is no industry, the major employer here is the base..either enlisted people, or locals who are subcontracted by the military by way of placing "bids" local companies always win.

The have nots have no voice here for the most part they are usually on assistance.  But this is changing as we finally have a bus service since the former mayor was turfed.  Before the bus service, there were just cab companies owned by various elected municiple individuals. 

We finally have a Walmart but that took years as council kept voting that down as it would put the downtown core out of business.  These are very old buildings, the ground floors are rented out to shop keepers, the top floors are coverted to rooming houses.  All are owned by former local council members.

The local paper, the Trentonian was owned by another old boys club member..nothing negative was ever printed  and the former police department was all part of this tidy little package, hence the screw up or lack of investigation when Kathleen was murdered as this town existed only on the income generated by CFB Trenton.

I would hate to think government pressure negated proper investigation but then again the former Trenton Police were Keystone Cops.  But given Kathleen's brutalized remains were found on highly military patrolled DND property shouldn't that have raised a few eye brows?  As far as I'm concerned if it walks like a duck, it is a duck.

As a footnote, not much to speak of was ever reported in the Trentonian regarding Kathleen's murder.  There was some mention that perhaps a transient killed her as a carnival was here in town at that time..although there was no follow up to that report.

Someone here wrote that Kathleen's was killed elsewhere and her body moved to Middleton Park..THAT I have NEVER seen reported.

Perhaps we should have a rant section..this one is mine!
   
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: ursula on March 10, 2010, 11:10:21 AM
Hey, Kat was a very close friend of mine and I miss her everyday. I hope they do find the person that did this to her. She of all ppl did not deserve this. I know by reading this that you guys do not know much about her but, if you had of met her you would of loved her as much as I did and still do. Kat deserves to have this settled. I feel that the person that did this has to eventually or has already said something to someone and someone will say something soon. This man in the news may have did this and if he did finally we have a person to blame. If not someone will have to take the blame soon.
This is a great website for ppl to express how they feel and I hope more ppl join on.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: debbiec on March 10, 2010, 11:26:00 AM

Hi ursula and welcome. Sorry for the loss of your friend. If there is anything at all that you want to add about Kathleen, feel free to do so. It will help us all to understand who she was.

Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on March 10, 2010, 05:28:48 PM
Hello ursula, welcome. I as well am sorry for your loss.
You are correct most people here never had the pleasure of knowing Kathleen, I for one. But we all care and if possible, want a certain degree of closure for her friends and family and this person brought to justice.   
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on March 10, 2010, 08:22:16 PM
Hello Ursula, it is nice to hear from Kathleen's friends and keep things alive about Kathleen until we can get some justice for what has happened to her. I do hope that we will hear something in the near future concerning any new developments in Kathleen's case. Thanks for taking the time to join us. :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Another Trentonian on March 14, 2010, 09:22:31 PM


I've lived in Trenton for 20 years, coming here with my husband when he was posted to the base at Trenton.  I work on the base and I remember the day that Kathleen MacVicar's body was found.  It was the day of the big Surf & Turf sports relay event and her body was found by a poor roads and grounds worker who was cutting the grass.  Believe me, everyone on the base would like to see her murder solved as much as the other citizens of Trenton.  We are ALL citizens of Trenton or the surrounding area and all of us would like some closure to this very sad event. 

There are a lot of statements made on this forum that I find strange and very uninformed.  I am not saying that I am informed either as I believe there is a whole lot more to this case I am sure that any of us know.  Sometimes publicizing too much can jeopardize the investigation, even at this lengthy state.  But one woman said that nobody was told that there was a murder for three days -- that they were told someone died of heatstroke???  And she lived in the PMQs!  Word spreads like wildfire in the PMQs.  Working on the base, we knew by that afternoon that there had been a murder - the WHOLE community knew that a body had been found and that it was foul play.  In a place this size, news travels fast.   There may have been mismanagement by the various police forces -- I cannot comment on that.  But I do know for a fact that they still have people working on this case, even before Col Williams was charged in the Marie-France Comeau and Jessica Lloyd murders. 

I find that people are making comments on here about the military that are disturbing.  Of course there are bad people in the military, just like in any other segment of the population.  People have alleged cover ups by the military in the MacVicar case and including the case of Williams.  Believe me, I know from the people who worked closely with Williams, I saw what they went through in the weeks following his arrest and there was NO cover up.  And to accuse the military of a cover up in this or the MacVicar murder is very unfair to the military.   Eventually, when the police have their evidence collected for the Comeau and Lloyd murders THEN they will focus on the other unsolved murders.  It is understandable that everyone wants closure but they have to make sure they have the evidence properly collected and presented to keep him behind bars forever for these two murders first!

I find it hard to believe that amIam actually lives in Trenton because he states that Kathleen MacVicar's body was found on this area of the base which is highly military patrolled.  If anything, the area where her body is found is the LEAST military patrolled.  And it is open to the general public.  Everyone here knows that. Any person, military or non-military can wander through the PMQ area or those woods at any time of the day.  And don’t forget, this was also prior to 9-11 when we had gone to a more open base concept with less security. The military police do not sit in their cruiser in that area.  They are usually further east up the road looking for people speeding through the PMQs!

And am I reading it correctly that amIam is alleging that the military is shipping Opium from Afghanistan on their military aircraft???  WOW!  Just that statement alone destroys any credibility you might have, IMHO. 

You are right that the major industry left here in Trenton is the base.  And you make it sound like the Mayor is in bed with these nasty military people for his own good.  Well, the City of Quinte West and Trenton are very fortunate to have the military air base here (by the way Barbara, in case you didn’t notice, CFB Trenton is an AIR base, not an Army base) and the Mayor is smart to have a great working relationship with the base.  He isn’t doing it to cover up terrible military misdeeds.  He is doing it because it is good for Trenton.   If we didn’t have the military and their families, and the retired military, we probably wouldn’t need that Walmart!   The economic spin offs to this area from the military base are huge!

Anyhow, this forum is supposed to be about Kathleen MacVicar and justice for her.  It isn’t supposed to be about what is wrong with Trenton and what is wrong with the military.  There is a lot of good in this Town and if you think otherwise, then use your energy to try and change that. 

By the way, Alex (a few pages back) was right on about the statements being made on here.  Maybe he just said it too forcefully, but he was right.

Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on March 15, 2010, 06:19:34 PM
Another Trentonian, after careful consideration I have decided to answer your post as you you have referred to me directly.
I can assure you I do live in Trenton and thank you for opening my eyes further regarding the park where Kathleen's body was found.  Military property.... Up until you posted (and thanks for pointing this out) the main focus of security seems to have been speeders through the PMQ's..I didn't know this..I am wondering if civilains were aware or was this an 'in house' thing..humm.  So basically, from your personal military knowledge, an area of the base that should have been patrolled was in fact ignored and the patrol was assigned to catch speeders???  Do I have this correct???

Given these facts as you have stated, and I have no doubt regarding your indepth explanation of the area, it is no wonder it took 2 days to find Kathleen's remains.  I am wondering other than military people, such as yourself, were the local civilians aware of the main focus being catching speeders far away from the crime scene?  I personally was unaware..I am a civilian.

The current mayor, I voted for..it was past past the time to end this " old boys" club.  The old Trenton Police chief ( disgraced) has been sent out to pasture and most of his force has resigned, been demoted or found work in the private sector.  This town now has the OPP and thank goodness.  But unfortunately this took place after Kathleen's murder.  Kathleen's case is still very active..it is called Project Shadow.

I have nothing to gain here, I am just a Trenton resident, no affilation what so ever to the military and do not depend on the military spin off for my livelihood.  Just so you know.



As for my comment regarding Opium now on the streets here..where and how it's appearing..call the OPP and ask a few questions.

   
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Another Trentonian on March 15, 2010, 09:05:34 PM
amIam, first of all, I am not military.  But I do take offence to people bashing the military and generally make assumptions that military persons are guilty of murder without any facts to substantiate it, other than feelings that they have.

As far as the military police patrols, if you live in Trenton and you drive down Curtis, you will be aware of the regular speed trap on Curtis, whether you are military or civilian.  They routinely enforce the 50 km/hr speed limit on that road.   I am not sure why you think it is necessary for the Military Police to patrol the woods around the base on a constant basis.  I am not privy to where they patrol on a regular basis but to say that this area approaching the married quarters is a highly patrolled area is erroneous.  It is the least secure area of the base, as it is open to whoever wants to go there.  Anyone can wander through the married quarter area and those woods which stretch all the way over to Zellers and Dairy Queen and most likely will not be bothered by security, unless they are doing something to attract attention. 

And I am not sure why you think the fact that her body was found on DND property should have raised a few eyebrows in the direction of the military.  I would think that if someone wanted to try and implicate the military (if they weren't military), then it might make sense to leave her body there.  The fact that she disappeared on Wed evening and her body was found on Friday morning is not surprising as people in general do not usually walk around that area.  I have run by there many many times and have never ventured over to that area to see what was over there.  It is probably fortunate that the grass was being cut that Friday morning or who knows how long it would have been before she was found.  And thank goodness it wasn't children who discovered her.  I heard from the man's supervisor that it was very gruesome and he needed counselling because of this terrible discovery. 

While you may not depend on the military spin off for your livelihood, you most likely benefit indirectly from the military presence in Trenton.  I doubt that the quality of life here would be as good if it was not for the military base. 

I doubt if I called the OPP and asked for info regarding Opium appearing on the streets of Trenton and if it is coming on military flights, they would answer that question.  I do have a friend in the OPP so I could possibly ask him.  Or I could ask a friend who works at Air Movements where they unload the aircraft.  Perhaps he can advise me of how much opium is coming into Trenton on military flights.  No maybe I shouldn't as I believe these are serious allegations to be making. 

As I said in the beginning, I take offence to the military bashing.  It could be a military member who is guilty of this terrible crime, but there is also a very good possibility it could have been a non-military person.  There have been several murders in Quinte West over the past ten years, but I have never heard of any of them being caused by a military person (other than the recent allegations agains Russell Williams).  I don't think we should be judging a whole segment of people based on one person.  There seems to be a whole lot of statements made on this discussion board about who is responsible for Kathleen's murder but nothing to back it up.  Hopefully we will get some facts and someone arrested soon so that poor Kathleen can finally rest in peace.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on March 16, 2010, 05:40:40 PM
Another Trentonian..yes there have been several murders in and around the immediate Trenton area since June 13th, 2001..in each case arrests were made rather quickly and charges were brought forward as well as convictions. In Kathleen's case there has been nothing..mainly as a result of a bungled investigation by the ( former) Trenton Police.  As you have stated, you have friend in the OPP, I urge you to speak with this officer to confirm my statements.  I as well have a few friends who are OPP officers. 

I realise you are very protective of the military, for whatever reason but I as a civilian, with no dependency whatsoever on any military spin off don't find it so far fetched that the Opium that is now appearing on our streets, is coming in via Afghan flights. This has yet to hit the national media.

It is my personal opinon, and I am not alone, that Kathleen's murder was committed by either someone employed at the base on a commisson basis, someone in the PMQ's or an enlisted military person, JMHO....

If you are unaware, there are several sites here regarding Williams..not the local ( current) mayor.  Just so you know, most of my comments regarding military involvement were made prior to his arrest.   
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Kaleidoscope-Eyes on March 17, 2010, 04:07:03 AM
WOW! I've spent the last several hours of my life reading this thread as well as several news articles in relation to both Kathleen MacVicar & Russell Williams (I too choose to never honor him with his previous title.)

I have MANY things to add to this thread. (and due to a 2000 character limit, it's coming in a few posts)

Several things in this thread have been said that are not accurate, have no fact backing them up, and are poorly informed statements and perspectives. I’d like to make some contributions to clearing some stuff up and giving another head spin on some aspects of all the mentioned cases. A lot of what I have to say is speculation of my own based on all the info I have gathered through media, discussions with others and experience.

Here is an original news release from when Kathleen was found.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2001/06/20/ns_stabbing010620.html

Here is the current Thunder Bay Crime Stoppers link – FACT – reward is $75,000 not $50,000

http://www.thunderbaydistrictcrimestoppers.com/content/What's_New/O.P.P._Rewards/

First - I grew up in Frankford, the tiny hamlet (defined by population 2,100) that is nestled in a valley just 11kms north of Trenton. Both these locations are part of the larger, amalgamated area of Quinte West, now referred to as Frankford Ward, Trenton Ward including a few other smaller areas, but this (Quinte West) does NOT include Belleville or Brighton -all this I'm mentioning to clear up the incorrect geographical information that was earlier posted. I know the area well, haven’t lived there is 7 years, but go back more than 2 times a month. I know A LOT of people from the area of Trenton, Belleville, Frankford, Stirling, Madoc, Marmora and many other areas surrounding it. I grew up with all the kids that were in trouble, and I know the drug & crime scene out there. I surely won’t blow anyone I know out of the water for their poor choice of lifestyle, but I will inform those who do not know of the reality, opposed to the fictitious outline the authorities give.

Here is a Bing map of the locations we are speaking about.

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=44.11303371191025~-77.57292866706848&lvl=15&sty=h&rtp=pos.44.110355452466585_-77.56422927131176_Curtis%20Rd%2C%20Quinte%20West%2C%20ON%20K8V___e_~pos.44.11792874336243_-77.58152782917022_N%20Murray%20St%2C%20Quinte%20West%2C%20ON%20K8V___e_&rtop=0~0~0~
 
Bottom line - Trenton Ward/Trenton is Trenton ... no matter what county or municipally amalgamated area it is part of. So let's forget about the term "QUINTE WEST" completely unless we are speaking about the O.P.P., officially called the Quinte West O.P.P.

The geography of MacVicar's case is FACT:  TRENTON (Ward) - CURTIS RD. - BASE PROPERTY.

FACT – the ‘dark’ or secluded area that sits between the military housing/PMQ’s and the civilian residences is VERY SHORT – this is NOT a long, winding road. There’s probably only a few hundred meters without streetlights.

FACT – even I KNOW how often the military police tag speeders on Curtis Rd – the rule always was when driving on the base that you do EXACTLY the speed limit or they’ll get you!

FACT – Trenton is big, yet small enough because it has that ‘small town’ feel to it, that it’s not uncommon to walk at night anywhere around there (Belleville, Trenton, Frankford, Brighton etc). Even with the murders, when media dies down about the events, the caution isn’t as prevalent in the mind and it’s easy to feel safe, walk out the door to go on a common route, because you always feel like you know everyone in the area. I used to sneak out from a country home and walk to the other side of Frankford in the middle of the night when I was just 13, I wasn’t afraid of people…I only feared the coyotes and the bears.
...continued in next post...
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Kaleidoscope-Eyes on March 17, 2010, 04:15:12 AM
...continued from previous post...

At the time of MacVicar's murder I was 21 and living just a few kms north of Curtis Rd. in the apartment complex on North Murray Street. It was a basement apartment that I shared with a girlfriend of mine - needless to say this case was very unsettling for us considering we were 2 young girls living only a wooded area and the train tracks away from MacVicar's body. I too agree in the annoyance of the delayed media release with respect to 'how' she died...though my roomie and I knew differently as I had a VERY immediate and factual source who had a police scanner. We were nervous wrecks knowing the truth and yet knowing that the police were not releasing the truth to the public.

First of all – THE GOOD OLD MEDIA – they’re just as full of crap as your next door neighbor who was vacationing in China at the time of the incidents and thinks he knows all before his plane landed (okay maybe that’s a bit over exaggerated lol) – but you get my point. I’m going to post a bunch of links to media releases and after you read them all you’ll surely ask yourself what the f**k is the truth.

 Example – National Post was the first to write up that Russell had been cleared of the MacVicar case – one of you mentioned it was also reported on Global which was likely them following suit with the National Post’s release – a local Belleville radio station released an article clearly indicating this was FALSE INFORMATION and that indeed there had not been enough time to even look at the correlation between the MacVicar murder and Russell Williams.
 http://www.mix97.com/news/2010/02/o-p-p-deny-report-former-cfb-trenton-base-commander-ruled-out-as-suspect-in-macvicar-murder/

Most of what my perspective is based on our news releases and conversations with others who may or may not have unpublicized ‘rumors’. And sometimes I wonder if there is more a seed of truth in the hear se that surfaces of the information that is never released. Take into consideration too, back in 2001, Police were still using radio frequencies that were easily listened to by anyone who had a scanner. I had one myself. Much of what was heard over the scanner was NEVER released to the public, so I KNOW for a fact that many people in Trenton have information that stemmed from police communication, though most of this information gets wishy-washy when mixed in with what does get released, and facts get taken out of context.

Remember the media gets their information from many sources – police, other officials that may be involved and sometimes people who are not involved but will comment because of having experience in similar cases, family, friends, neighbors, other news publications, nowadays facebook and other online social networking sites…the list goes on – but all the media is doing to gathering as much as they can to SELL you the best story that they can…and whichever station gives you the best gathering of information is the one you CHOOSE to give your attention to…with some of us surfing through it all…media must have a story to sell you or you wouldn’t watch it and they will, can and do misconstrue things to suit them best. This was proven with 9/11…I’ll say no more as this is just another thread where much controversy exists, but you all understand what I mean. Bottom line – MEDIA is only 1 part of the puzzle.

Then there’s the authorities, be it police of any level (municipal, provincial, federal) or military or government. These guys LIE TOO…and for “ALEX”…I’m not stating accusations against their greater good, but all the authorities have the ability to be corrupt…and the corruption DOES EXIST – FACT!
I do NOT believe the military has any direct involvement in William’s crimes, nor do I believe they do in the MacVicar case, however, they were described by MEDIA to be cooperative in the William’s investigation, yet they were claimed by MacVicar’s mother to be very closed mouth and not of much help to her, yet the police had been the opposite with MacVicar’s mother.

To shed some light about some things I do know that have happened and are not of public knowledge, here goes.

Back in 2001 when the Trenton Police Force was flushed and they brought back in the O.P.P. funded by the municipality of the new “Quinte West”, all cases I knew in the criminal justice system were a MESS to say the least. I agree with “amIam“ that much has improved since the OPP took over, however, I KNOW after reading through case disclosures that much of even the OPP’s evidence was not consistent and filled with things that make a person say “HUH..WTF”.

 Example – a person on trial was accused of several weapon offenses, the police stated this person had a brother of whom the accused a)never heard of at all and b)this person had NO siblings – also is another case, a person made some allegations and the final question by the Srgt. to the so-called victim was this “For what reason should I believe what you are telling me to be the truth” and the victim says “you shouldn’t” – yet the final outcome was this victim/witness showing up to trial to testify her allegations and then being handed a cheque by the investigating team at the end of trial – this was witnessed by several people in the court room. To my knowledge, knowing the accused VERY well….all allegations were just that and were never true,  and the victim had a problem with crack cocaine and was about to have her kids taken from her…what a way for the cops to get their ‘story’ and make it appear they were taking down more people related to the drug crimes in the area – however, this was not so as the accused was not into drugs or crime yet now lives with a criminal record so that the Police and Media could have a Story to Sell YOU and ME and everyone else and make it look like our tax dollars are being spent in a justifiable way.

Are you getting the picture here?

That same Srgt. was demoted several months later back to a uniformed constable as he detained someone longer than he should have without letting that person make their phone call. Is anyone else saying ‘hmmm’ yet?

Sometimes these officials do things and it slips, and they get caught and it leaves the rest of us questioning the integrity of the entire organization. In some cases, it’s the organization, and in others, such as the Williams case, it’s NOT the organization. All in all…we are all human whether we wear a uniform to work or not and even those with a ranking such as Williams, who underwent psychological testing and military scrutiny, there is bound to be a bad apple on every tree and there is bound to be cracks in the system and there is bound to be people who will cover up what they can to protect someone else from getting caught. Even the criminals are someone’s children, right? I know I personally would protect my child even if guilty….blood is thicker than water! Sad, but true! Though I would want any person to be held accountable for their actions, I wouldn’t be the one to hang my family members out to dry; I’d leave it up to someone else to do (or themselves). 

In Williams case specifically, and I won’t go too far into this as this is a
thread for MacVicar, here is a guy that everyone says they can’t believe a commanding base officer would get away with this for so long, be like this and be able to hide it so well. Well, here’s something to really think hard about. These men and women in the military are humans, capable of anything and are not ruled out for having mental disorders that lead to such crimes. They are trained both for their daily job and for frontline duties. They have had to be conditioned to some degree to be desensitized; more so than the average civilian I’m sure (military personnel please correct me if I’m wrong here). They are also our ‘trained killers’. Maybe not everyone, but I’m sure Williams had the best of training to kill if given the order from his commander!! Yes, there are tests performed that increase probability of diagnosis or suspicion of mental disorders/dysfunctions etc., however, if a person with ADD/ADHD can through life displaying articulate behavior and hiding their flaws and can go undiagnosed for years…it is surely possible for a person like Williams to KNOW something is wrong with him through these vicious acts and yet be capable of keeping that side of him so well hidden. Several people I know have had contact with him or know people who have and it has been well discussed that Williams kept VERY much to himself. Never spoke of his personal life when out with colleagues or in any place; was very private.

Another thinker for you all, back to media and misinformation and/or lack of publication.

How many of you heard the reports of how Williams and Bernardo were classmates, graduated from UofT in Scarborough and are suspected of partying together? How many of you know that a competition between the two of them is being investigated?

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2010/02/11/12845766-qmi.html
http://www.thepeterboroughexaminer.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2446234

I like this one too…

http://news.suite101.com/article.cfm/col-russell-williams-tied-to-paul-bernardo-a201399

…the link above I get a kick out of this “a roadblock was set up on Highway 37, close to Lloyd’s home. Williams was stopped in the roadblock and taken into custody after, according to police sources, he showed an unusual interest in the woman’s disappearance. As well, police were looking for vehicles that had tires with unusual treads and Williams’ vehicle had such treads. The morning after Williams’ arrest, police found Lloyd’s body just off of a side road near the colonel’s home. It is believed that Lloyd and Williams had previously gone to the same bars”
A)   It was only ever reported in this article that ‘he showed an unusual interest in the woman’s disappearance”
B)   Another article claims it was Williams himself that led the police to finding Lloyd’s body, and yet here the media give the police the credit of finding her.
C)   ‘and taken into custody after’ – written in a way that makes people think he was taken into custody right there at the roadblock, which he was not – roadblock was Feb 4th, arrest was Feb 7th, Lloyd found Feb 8th.

Some articles claim his home in Tweed was his “home” and others call it his cottage. Only one report tells the same story of what I heard through a friend who worked with a woman who knew the wife that is in regards to the wife being in Ottawa at their newly purchased home.
http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/02/08/12791976.html
http://www.trentonian.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2440235
This following link has many details that seemed to NOT be mentioned anywhere else.
http://news.globaltv.com/Trenton+commander+charged+with+murder/2536787/story.html
When you read that story, note the Larry Jones guy who was under investigation previously for the 2 home invasions that Williams is now being accused of. Larry’s house is directly beside Williams from what I’ve been told; media reports they were ‘neighbors’.
...continued in next post...
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Kaleidoscope-Eyes on March 17, 2010, 04:18:14 AM
My opinion: The Belleville Police & OPP set up that roadblock at THAT given time because they KNEW Williams would be coming through and had to find a evidence enough to link him to their suspicion, his tires were what they needed (many reports say the police suspected this since the November murder of the other military lady).  My guess is that they investigated Larry Jones as a decoy to make Williams think they were looking elsewhere when really they were only using Larry to get closer to the evidence, closer to Williams and keeping just how much they knew under wraps. It all seems quite an intelligent way to me to get close to a guy of such a high profile who is capable of covering a lot up and capable of running easily if he thought the Police were on to him. And if the 4 incidents (Lloyd, Military woman and 2 abductions) were so similar in evidence, then when they had Larry under the eye for the 2 girls they would have already known the 2 girls linked in with the Brighton Military woman (that’s assuming Larry was investigated AFTER November when the Brighton murder occurred, a source told me Jones was raided only the day before Williams was, however I don’t know for sure – EDIT/UPDATE – Jones’s house was searched Oct 29th according to the same report that claimed originally Williams had been ruled out

 http://news.globaltv.com/Video+Russell+Williams+Ottawa+home/2540874/story.html?tab=VID ).

 More information on the Larry Jones and info not published elsewhere here

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/763057--police-revisit-unsolved-murders-after-trenton-commander-s-arrest

Sorry for getting so far off track, I’m really just trying to give you all some new perspective on things here.  Back to MacVicar. I too believe that Williams is responsible for this. Being held accountable for it is another story. The day I first seen Lloyd’s poster (Jan 30th) I IMMEDIATELY connected the 2 murders. The moment they released Williams’s arrest, I IMMEDIATELY connected the 2. Both in gut and in theory. 
There hasn’t been much media talk about the proceedings in the Williams case and what new information they have found, though this just goes to prove most of my point – everything that is released to us via media released is streamed by the agencies involved and then is possible of being printed with original context missing or is written in a way to misconstrue the facts. They say there are 3 sides to every story – side a, side b and the truth…then add in media coverage and well you have a whole new story. We will never know the truth, even when the media releases ‘the truth’ it won’t likely be the truth, it will be whatever will set our minds at ease or whatever will stir us up more so we TUNE IN again!
MacVicar’s murder is unfortunate, as well as any other. All these crimes deserve to have someone brought to justice

To the person who came to Kathleen’s defense about her visiting friends and that fact it was NOT a party – I agree with you that it was stated along the way - To the person who said “no one said she was at a party” …yes it was mentioned several times, however I don’t think anyone ever gave that too much attention or seen Kathleen as a partier!

To those who think that the police over the years have not been working in this case. Here’s is what I know. During the fall of 2005, I attended a friend’s residence in a town about 50kms from Trenton. When I arrived, my friend informed me that he was being picked up by police (OPP) for questioning about a girl who was in jail at that time who was being investigated for MacVicar’s death. My friend wasn’t himself under investigation, but back when MacVicar was murdered, my friend and this girl in jail had spent much time together. So, there’s some proof that even 4 years afterwards, they were still interviewing people and looking into the possibilities that were before them.

For those irritated by the accusations, assumptions and such, I can understand where you are all coming from. But, no matter how much you want these folks to shut up with their assumptions, each person reading these posts is trying to tie all the information they have of which most is b.s. as it’s media coverage, together. We all want to see justice prevail for the MacVicar family.

It is with great interest in the mystery of it all that I am participating in this discussion, as I was always interested in private investigation. I tend to look at things differently than most, and though I have not put many of my personal opinions here in this post, I have drawn a microscopic look at the media and how they SELL you a STORY and how the facts are not clear.

Someone along the way mentioned about DNA being taken from anyone with a criminal record. Well, the judge can order it, but a lawyer can dispute it…it doesn’t happen in every case. So depending on the crime committed, some criminals who go from ‘smaller’ crimes back in the 80/90’s and escalate to more serious crimes may have never had their DNA taken.  IF DNA was collected at the MacVicar scene, then shouldn’t it already be known if he did this or not? My guess is the DNA may have been the evidence that some claim to have been mishandled or there just was not any DNA collected. Remember too it was sexual assault not rape that was stated in the media, so there may not have been DNA available.

To go back to Trenton and what kind of town it is. Military persons seem to vouch quite often for the area. It is a ‘nice’ area. It has potential and has on the surface, has seemed to improve a lot over the years. However, behind closed doors, there are just as many criminals, drug addicts, drug dealers, welfare recipients, teenage pregnancies, juvenile delinquents, and low life scum as there are professionals. The drugs on the street are of all extremes, from homegrown marijuana to the finest chemicals. However, where ‘amIam’ brings his theory to the table about where the opium is coming from, I disagree. I know for a fact that most of these chemicals come in from towns between Toronto and Montreal. If Trenton was the homebase for opium much of the chemicals would be cleaner, cheaper and more readily available. As Project Fortitude took down a huge organized crime ring (so they claim it to be, I do not know the truth of it), and Project Longarm has been busting people for over a decade now, it’s been predominantly marijuana that is found manufactured in the region. It has NOT been MILLION DOLLAR COCAINE or HEROINE busts. That alone has me doubting that opium is coming in through our military base. Remember too, there are A LOT of bikers in the area, especially in Picton (so I’ve been told) and aren’t the bikers responsible for much of the chemical black market? I believe from what I know that they are. Again, please correct me if I’m wrong.

Trenton is without a doubt worthy of becoming a hole on the map, IMO! I’d love to see them wipe out all the riffraff there, but that will never happen. And if they could offer the community the resources and support needed to clean up the streets, you’d see an improvement, but Trenton would go broke doing it. The military is ALL that town has to keep it from being declared 100% disgraceful.
Many people there live by street rules, and street rules include keeping your mouth shut. I’m not saying it’s right, and I’m not saying it’s wrong, all I’m saying is that’s just the way it is. The ones that do ‘talk’ are usually talking to have their own asses cleared, then becoming informants to the police and viewed as a rat on the street.  A game of cat and mouse I guess you can say. Once the cat catches the mouse it’s all about getting him to squeak or eatin’ him up alive. I would say the majority get eatin’ as there doesn’t seem to be mice squeaking out the information needed about MacVicar.  The sad part is, the people that are tangled up in the drugs and the ‘street life’ are viewed first as the suspects in crimes, yet the Williams case proves social status is irrelevant. And though drugs can lead to guns and drugs and guns can lead to crime, so can top-notch training in the military, police force, law society, political society and so on and so forth. No one is exempt. No organization is perfect. No human is perfect. And…anything is possible.
Everything is messy, that is without a doubt. Media has made it that way for the public. If it’s messy on the outside, I’m sure it’s messy on the inside too. This post has become too long for me to go further. But I have more to say…
To be continued…
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on March 17, 2010, 08:45:26 AM
Excellent job of sleuthing Kaleidoscope - You have figured out and narrowed down much;  keep it up!
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Kaleidoscope-Eyes on March 17, 2010, 07:01:45 PM
SAP - don't get me too wrong, as I said, it's a sad, but true integrity I have where I wouldn't hang my family out to dry....maybe not morally correct for the greater good, but morally correct for my family values. It's always a tough position to be in, and each of us has to decide if ever there, which option is most easily contended with for our own peace within.

Another point I want to make about the MacVicar case that I didn't mention before; in these last 9 years since her death, much has advanced in the way of technology in the world, however, much of what the local forces were using back in 2001 was NOT up to date at that time, remember, it was the Trenton Police (municipally funded) who were first called in. As mentioned by one person, they were not equipped to capacitate the investigation, hence calling in the OPP. I can't say I know what more the OPP were able to bring to the table, but I'm going to guess it wasn't a whole lot more where technology was concerned, only more where experience was concerned. We have to remember that this case may very well have been the first major case where the local police, if not both the local and the OPP learned the hard way. Sadly, where our justice system depends so much on evidence that has not a shadow of doubt, there really isn't any room for screwing stuff up.

There have been countless incidents even since 2001 where lack of proper procedures on the authorities part (speaking of the Quinte are specifically) have washed out cases and sent criminals back out onto the streets. I could be wrong, but I hear more of lack of continuity on the Quinte West OPP opposed to Belleville Police who are a municipal force that has existed for forever. So what does this say to us? Is it that they are careless? Human? Insufficiently trained? Allow for slacking? Are corrupt?

Dean Brown/Hannah case - Did you all know that the owners of Matt & Joe's Nightclub (the club that is Dean Brown was supposedly seen drinking at the night before he shot his gf, her sister and mother), the Lentini family have a brother/son who is on the Belleville Police Force? LOL - I always found this rather interesting. Not that I care, they are running a 'legit' business, but I bet the b.s. with the underage drinking won't be in question for too long. The media was quick to point a finger at this club, but failed to mention that Dean Brown was seen drinking shots of Jack Daniels at the Cabaret, a strip joint downtown Belleville AFTER he had been to Matt&Joes. I bet the AGCO is having fun with this case. Who cares really where this kid was drinking...if had of been 19 it wouldn't be an issue, but the media wants just another story to talk about, so let's put some blame on the bar and have them under the microscope just for something else to talk about. My point: EVERYONE IS CONNECTED out there in one way or another, everyone knows someone and there's always someone screwing up to make the cases/incidents etc. inconsistent and hard to find the truth of.

Here's another one for ya: the lawyer that represented Williams, John Wonnacott...he's a crackerjack, been charged himself with impaired driving (again, so I've been told) and I've heard he can't fight his way out of a paper bag....though he has not be retained as Williams's lawyer...I just thought I'd share. Dean Brown on the other hand, has Kafka....a lawyer who is capable of getting the devil out of his own firepit! So, it will be interesting to see where the Brown/Hannah case goes.

and yet another story I forgot to mention to prove the system is a mess
2 people on weapons charges go into pre-trial - neither is guilty of the charges before them GUARANTEED - 1 person has a legal aid lawyer, the other person a lawyer from Toronto who is being paid top dollar. The crown offers a plea bargain; both lawyers agree to take the plea bargain which goes like this:

"If you two plead not guilty as you are not guilty, the case then goes to Supreme Court, then the court is going to add in the charge of use of an imitation firearm. As they have NO evidence against you for the current firearm charges, all they need is for the 'victim' to testify saying that you two had what she believed to be a weapon - you two then have a firearm conviction that is just as hefty as using a real firearm. If you plead guilty to break and enter with intent, they will drop all firearm charges."

Like I said, BOTH the paid for outta pocket lawyer and the legal aid lawyer advise their clients to take the plea bargain. SO tell me now, who's the crooked one here? Innocent people being messed with in the courthouse by the investigating officers, the crown and the lawyers admitting to the dirty game it is, and advising their clients to 'play the game' for self preservation reasons. Those lawyers knew the payout the girl was getting, the flights to and from Calgary for her and that the police were using her as their pawn to prevent them from lookin' like a bunch of retards for spending so many tax dollars on a case where everything from A to Z was bulls**t.

Once involved with the system anyway, one must understand that it's a whole other world and is not black and white like it's made out to be. There's a million loop holes, tonnes of grey area and things get tricky.
I believe people have to stop relying on the authorities to serve our people justice, as the justice system has failed us time and time again. It all comes down to money, power and reputation in the public eye....3 things which we all KNOW cause people to go far beyond their usual character. We all know politicians and lawyers are liars, why do we have so much more faith in the other authorities?

For those of you have seen the movie "Law Abiding Citizen"....great example of how our system (in this movie, the American system) fails the people and the victims.

I pray for true justice to prevail in the MacVicar case. I hope whoever did this, be it Williams or someone else, tells someone who takes justice into their own hands by decapitating that person. In the Brown/Hannah case, I believe they should release the kid to Mr. Hannah...let the father/hubby of that family be the one to let justice prevail.
Same with Williams...give him to the Lloyd's and the Comeau's family....let the living girls he abducted have a piece.
Now THAT would be justifiable!
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on March 17, 2010, 08:12:36 PM
I do believe in my heart that Kathleen's case will be solved. The investigators are focusing on the two murders of Comeau and Lloyd and the two violent sex attacks. They indicated that earlier on. I believe that if Williams did kill Kathleen, the police will eventually get to that. They have mounds of evidence to go through at this time and they have to get through what is on their plate now. But I have faith in them and believe that Kathleen is going to get justice. RIP, Kathleen.  :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on March 18, 2010, 12:04:12 PM
Kaleidoscope ..... the more you write, the more I think you are writing about New Waterford, NS
This is why Kathleen Mac Vicar's case is close to my heart.... add to that, she is a Glace Bayer.  ....There are many many people in Glace Bay near and dear to my heart, and was in my mother's before me.  She loved Glace Bay and its people.  RIP dear Kathleen.  My family pray to bring down your enemy.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on March 18, 2010, 03:35:51 PM
Kaleidoscope-Eyes, thanks for your posts, it has taken me awhile to read them through but I have enjoyed each and every one.  Please continue posting!
I must says its very refreshing to have someone else here who understands the demographics of this town.

As well many other things you have mentioned regarding the day Kathleen's body was discovered, have interested me. You spoken of police scanners, for whatever reason ( entertainment??) although I believe they it is now illegal to own one, so many people I know still have them. And these are law abiding citizens!... I digress..on the morning Kathleen's body was discovered, I received a cell phone call from a friend who owned a scanner..knew all about the discovery of her body and was enroute to the scene.  ( Up until that point I didn't even know a girl was missing!) I figured it was a bunch of crap but humoured him as he said he would call from the " scene".  And he did. There were many members of the public on scene..I could many voices in the background, some women.  He related they were waiting for the police to arrive and this was at the very least 45 minutes after his first call...so how many military people, as it WAS, after all their area, were at the homocide scene prior to the civillians and far prior to the Trenton Police??  As I have said the scene was contaminated.

As I have said before, I believe, the morning of the discovery of Kathleen's
remains, there was a great deal of confusion as in whose jurisdiction her remains were placed.  This fact I was unaware of until the poster, Another Trentonian pointed out the area had been opened to the pubic, so now I understand further as to why such a time lapse in the arrival of the former "Trenton Police"  And in the ensuing piddling contest, much, if there ever was any DNA evidence was compromised.

Given, what you have written regarding the Brown/ Hannah case and others..perhaps the "old boys" club here is still alive and well.  And I was so hopeful that the situation here is no longer " what you know but WHO you know." 

       
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on March 18, 2010, 05:31:23 PM
The same thing happened in the Clayton Miller case....the authorities here deliberately let the scene get contaminated.... of course that was because they were already involved in Clayton's death up to the ears. hmmm I wonder :-\
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Another Trentonian on March 18, 2010, 08:50:45 PM
I figured it was a bunch of crap but humoured him as he said he would call from the " scene".  And he did. There were many members of the public on scene..I could many voices in the background, some women.  He related they were waiting for the police to arrive and this was at the very least 45 minutes after his first call...so how many military people, as it WAS, after all their area, were at the homocide scene prior to the civillians and far prior to the Trenton Police??  As I have said the scene was contaminated.

As I have said before, I believe, the morning of the discovery of Kathleen's
remains, there was a great deal of confusion as in whose jurisdiction her remains were placed.  This fact I was unaware of until the poster, Another Trentonian pointed out the area had been opened to the pubic, so now I understand further as to why such a time lapse in the arrival of the former "Trenton Police"  And in the ensuing piddling contest, much, if there ever was any DNA evidence was compromised.

amIam, I think you misunderstood me.  I never said that the area was opened to the public on the morning of Kathleen's discovery.  And I don't admit to knowing how long it took for the military or the local police to arrive.  I doubt that the military police would allow people to be wandering freely throughout the area where Kathleen's body was located.  Maybe there was a crowd but they must have been congregated away from that area.  I say this because I was involved in the Surf & turf competition and the police had Curtis blocked off and so we were not permitted to go past that area.   

Her body was found on National Defence property and therefore the military police would have jurisdiction.  However in cases of murder, they usually pass control of the case over to the experts in murder investations such as they did in the recent Wilson case in the PMQs.  I have no idea what the timing was in the MacVicar case, but I do know the Trenton police were involved fairly quickly as my friend at the OPP has told me.  I don't think there was a pissing contest.  You mentioned earlier that I should ask my friend about the bungling of the case by the Trenton police.  This friend was actually on the case for some time but other than telling that fact, does not reveal details.   Saying more wouldn't be professional.


Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: jobo on March 19, 2010, 07:34:41 AM
My feeling is that Williams had nothing to do with Kathleen MacVicar's murder...I say this because Williams strangled his victims, and poor Kathleen was stabbed. I believe Williams was too smart to commit a crime like this on his own turf, and to possibly get blood on himself... I still think, though that someone with ties to the Base there in Trenton is the perp.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on March 19, 2010, 11:05:23 AM
You're right about that jobo.  ....Kathleen's murder mo is "out of character" for Williams.  ....unless it happens that he was having "a bad day" and Kathleen managed to defend herself enough to get away and he had to chase her down...and lost control of himself.  But does he carry a knife? 
I doubt too, now that we know so much more on Williams, that he did this to Kathleen.  This crime seems more like a desperate "crack head" that carries a knife.... or else someone she knew personally who killed her "with hate behind his crime".
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on March 19, 2010, 04:40:14 PM
Another Trentonian, I never said on the morning Kathleen's remain's were  found the area of her body dump site was designated as a public area THAT particular morning. I stated I was UNAWARE that this was a public area at THAT time..  I must commend you regarding blowing smoke, as well as mincing and twisting my words. Good job! LOL





 If anything, the area where her body is found is the LEAST military patrolled.  And it is open to the general public.  Everyone here knows that. Any person, military or non-military can wander through the PMQ area or those woods at any time of the day.  And don’t forget, this was also prior to 9-11 when we had gone to a more open base concept with less security. The military police do not sit in their cruiser in that area.  They are usually further east up the road looking for people speeding through the PMQs! end quote]
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on March 19, 2010, 04:53:48 PM
Jobo, when and how did you determine Williams had no connection to Kathleen's murder?  Geez it wasn't long ago you determined he was here in Trenton, June 13/ 01..It was determined by the OPP and ( eventually) posted on their website that Kathleen was stabbed to death.  The cause of death for both Jessica Lloyd and Marie France Comeau has never been made public.  If you have something to the contrary at your disposal, please post a link.  Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on March 19, 2010, 05:18:10 PM
Cape (  big sigh) what do we know about Williams and how he murdered Marie France Comeau and Jessica Lloyd?  There has never been anything media related posted here as either cause of death.  The OPP has stated nothing.   You wrote and I quote: 
I doubt too, now that we know so much more on Williams, that he did this to Kathleen.  This crime seems more like a desperate "crack head" that carries a knife.... or else someone she knew personally who killed her "with hate behind his crime".

Cape, when did we learn more about Williams?  I live here in Trenton.nothing has been coming forth.  If you are privy to links, please advise as I am unaware other than what the national news and Google provided before they were stifled.

Crack heads responsible? When did this happen?
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on March 19, 2010, 06:20:00 PM
amIam; it was me who wrote that post..... I stand corrected if what you wrote in another one of the Russell Threads is true, or even possibley true. :-[

Quote
cape, things have been "leaked" out regarding Williams cooperation, nothing has and still is not confirmed by the OPP.  A leak mentioned both Marie Comeau and Jessica Lloyd were strangled.  I live here in Trenton, a few miles from Brighton where he murdered Marie Comeau.  I have a friend, who is connected to the Brighton Fire Dept, they were called to the scene of her death and he told me Marie Comeau was stabbed 31 times.  I cannot confirm this as it's heresay.  


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
cape,  I can't begin to imagine Marie's terror, from all reports she was such a wonderful person; " full of life" as she was described.  And the same has been said regarding Jessica.  This is all so very sad.  
I don't know why it took so long to link the two home invasions and sexual assaults in Tweed, (Sept. 17 & Sept 30)  to Marie's murder ( Nov. 24-25) in Brighton as the same firefighter who related she had been stabbed, also said she was found tied to a chair..which is what Williams did to the two women in Tweed.  In both those assaults, the victims although blindfolded were aware he had a knife
 
 
 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: jobo on March 19, 2010, 09:20:28 PM
The only victims I have ever connected Williams to are:  Price(1982), Bain(1990), Tice(1983), Gilmour(1983), and McWilliams(1987)But of course, that is only if he started at a young age....I never once connected him with Kathleen's murder, even if I have said he was at the base during that period.  From all that I have read, It does not seem to be the way Williams attacked his other victims, they were all in their own homes. as were Gilmour and Tice. I believe Price was too, but don't quote me on that one. Bain I gather, was abducted from her car, she had gone to the UofT Scarborough Campus but her car was left in close proximaty to the 401.
 I connected someone with ties to the base with Kathleen MacVicar's murder, mainly because I cannot see a civvy killing a young woman walking on the base property. Why..Why there? Even if the general public, with no ties to the base, could walk there, I doubt they would kill there. I just don't see it. And please, I do not want anyone to think I am saying it is a military man, but I also do not rule one out. I'm thinking it could also be someone that was visiting someone else from the base. I believe the perp was perhaps more familiar with the layout of the property than, say,a crack head from downtown would be.
 I also have read that Lloyd and Comeaux were asphyxiated.  You can go into Wikpedia for starters and go down to the link at the bottom.( I couldn't open it just now,my computer keeps telling me to reconnect to the internet).   I must have also read it elsewhere, but would really have to search back.  I read all the news I can gather (with a grain of salt) and these posts (some with a grain of salt) and I form my opinions. I read everything I could on Williams, because I am fascinated with the fact he was "a bright shining star" that was so sick in the head, and had soooo many people fooled. 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Another Trentonian on March 19, 2010, 09:32:14 PM
Another Trentonian, I never said on the morning Kathleen's remain's were  found the area of her body dump site was designated as a public area THAT particular morning. I stated I was UNAWARE that this was a public area at THAT time..  I must commend you regarding blowing smoke, as well as mincing and twisting my words. Good job! LOL

Well then the misunderstanding was mine I guess.  I am not sure what you think I am blowing smoke about.  Maybe you can explain that comment.   But I still doubt that people were wandering freely through the area where they found Kathleen's body contaminating the area.  I can't say that for a fact because I wasn't there.  And apparently you weren't either.  I have never seen the military police take 45 minutes to get to a call.  There was an incident today at the base and they were there right away and cordoned off the area.  People were not wandering through the area.  The OPP showed up as well, I think because they initially thought it could be in their jurisdiction, but subsequently left.  There was no pissing contest as to jurisdiction.  Both the OPP (and the QW/Trenton Police before them) and Military Police are very aware of what is OPP jurisdiction and what area falls under the National Defence Act and is under the military's jurisdiction.  As a matter of fact, from what I have seen, they have a good working relationship.

Here you go Jobo.  There has in fact been media stories stating that Marie France Comeau and Jessica Lloyd were both asphyxiated.  See here for one:

http://www.canada.com/news/Eastern+Ontario+women+were+both+asphyxiated/2556788/story.html

Whether it is true or not remains to be seen, if we ever hear the truth.  However, a good source told me that 95% of what we were reading in the newspaper that first week was true.  Another very good source also told me that Kathleen was slashed, not just a once or twice but many many times.   Maybe it was Williams who did it but nothing indicates that he was posted here at that time, so if he did, it would have had to be during a visit.  And maybe he hasn't always used the same pattern to his crimes, or has changed them.  One thing that I do find strange, if he has been a psychopathic serial killer dating all the way back to who knows when, then why weren't there any murders/sexual assaults reported in Trenton/Quinte area from 2004 until 2006 (less the six months he at Camp Mirage) when he was the CO at 437 Sqn?  

Maybe he will, in the end, do a "Bernardo" and list the crimes he is responsible for so that families can finally have closure.  But it will probably be a long time coming.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: jobo on March 20, 2010, 07:37:22 AM
Thanks, Trentonian, for posting that link on your post, regarding the murders of Marie France Comeau and Jessica Lloyd.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on March 20, 2010, 05:02:29 PM
My apologies Cape.

Lost, below is an interview given by one of Williams victims.  In the article she states he had a knife.

As for my comment regarding the information provided to me re: Marie France Comeau's stabbing 31 times by one of the Brighton firefighters who responded to the murder scene.  I stand behind that statement..he also said she was tied to a chair.  Marie Comeau's actual cause of death could have been strangulation..that determination would have been made at the autopsy.

Columnists / Mike Strobel

‘In the company of the devil’: Victim

By MIKE STROBEL, Toronto Sun

Last Updated: 8th February 2010, 10:50pm

Col. Russ Williams.

Col. Russ Williams.

“I was in the company of the devil himself.

“And I was sure he was going to kill me.”

She has titanic courage, this Tweed single mom.

For 21/2 hours in the deepest dark of last Sept. 30, she fought, begged, cajoled and prayed for her life.

And now the horror of that sexual assault returns in a stunning flash.

Her accused attacker is CFB Trenton’s commander, Col. Russ Williams — also charged Monday in another Tweed sexual attack, and for the murders of Jessica Lloyd and Marie-France Comeau.

A top soldier. A neighbour. A leading citizen of Tweed.

“I’m still in shock,” the mom tells me. “Just sick to my stomach. He was so close.”

The detectives gave her the news first thing Monday morning. “It’s over,” they assured her.

Well, not by a long shot. Not for her. Hours of counselling lie behind and ahead.

And she will live that night again and again.

She fell asleep alone in her house, in a back room, and awoke around 2 a.m. She was choking. Her comforter was pressed to her face. “I thought maybe there was a fire,” she says.

But it was a man. A strong man. She struggled. He beat her about the head. She broke free enough to breathe.

“You DON’T want to look at me,” he said. His voice was deep and muffled.

“I won’t,” she whispered. But he blindfolded her and she never laid eyes on him, not once.

Even when he bound her hands behind her back.

Even when he trussed her up in a sort of makeshift harness, fashioned from a pillowcase, twist ties and wire he found in her room.

Even when he cut off her clothes with a knife and said, “I’ll be careful not to cut you.”

Even when he assaulted her.

Even when he took photographs, letting her touch the camera so she’d know.

Even when he told her: “You seem like a nice lady.”

“It was so bizarre,” she says. “He was playing a game with me. I had conversations with him the whole time, almost like I was negotiating with him.”

“You’re going to kill me, aren’t you?” she asked him, early on.

“No need for that,” he replied.

He convinced her he had accomplices burglarizing her home, though she heard nothing.

At 4:30 a.m, in that bleakest time before dawn, he ordered her onto her knees, head down, on a couch. “He has a gun,” she thought. “Now, I die.”

But he left, warning her he’d come back in 10 minutes. She waited, but he did not return. And she called for help.

The next four months are a blur. DNA tests, therapy, bewilderment, fear. She bought a German shepherd. She could not sleep. Always the question: Who could do this? In Tweed!?

She saw no connection to the Lloyd and Comeau cases, until cops announced last week there might be a link.

Then came Monday’s shocking news. The other sexual assault. Two women murdered. One suspect. The police vowing to probe the colonel’s past.

“Why am I alive?” the Tweed mom asks me.

I wish I had an answer. She will seek it for years to come.

“I guess I’m blessed,” she says. “He let me live. I can’t explain it.

“Now I just want to sleep. I’m so exhausted.”

She knew Col. Williams only to say hello. She did not even know he was CFB Trenton’s commander.

Shortly after Christmas, she drove past his front yard on Cosy Cove Lane.

She waved. He waved back.

Mike Strobel’s column runs

Wednesday to Friday, and Sunday.

mike.strobel@sunmedia.ca

or 416-947-2265.

Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on March 20, 2010, 05:37:20 PM
yes amIam;  I've come to realize.... Williams did use a knife in his crimes.  Nonetheless;  Kathleen's murder seems different for some reason.... just something in my gut I guess.  I figured Williams when he first came to light - then somehow, I just lost sight of him for Kathleen's murder.  ...though it's sad to think there's another Williams out there, so close, and on the loose??? -better if it turned out it was him.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on March 20, 2010, 06:13:04 PM
Jobo, sorry.  I think perhaps Kathleen's murder is getting to me. Perhaps I know more than I should about a few details of the actual crime scene that were related to me by the police.  The fact that the investigation into her murder was bungled so very badly in the first few days has always troubled me.  However, the bungling will never be made public.

I should have started a personal file of news reports regarding Williams when he was arrested..I didn't do this.  Case in point, it was initally reported he owned 3 homes but the police only searched 2..where was the 3rd?  I asked that question here somewhere and a poster responded that his/her relative, rents his property on the base.

There was a media report that during the time of Kathleen's murder, Williams was stationed in both Ottawa and Trenton..but I can't find that either however I believe I posted that link on one of the many sites.

And then there was a poster on this site that stated they had heard Kathleen had been murdered elsewhere and her body placed where she was discovered. ( I have not been able to confirm this statement)  However, in a way this makes a bit of sense as she had lain there for a few days, in a DND area confirmed here by another poster, connected to the military as being open to the public. Why didn't one of the many members of the public who took advantage of the area discover her body sooner.  Perhaps she wasn't there all that time she was missing...?

A recented poster here comment that Kathleen had not been raped as has been stated a few times.  The OPP webpage states she was sexually assaulted but in what manner they haven't disclosed.

Does some local civilian have knowlege of Kathleen's murder, know someone who perhaps slipped up and said something after nearly 9 years?  To me, the $75,000.00 reward would be a great motivator in a town that is so economically depressed..that is unless you are employed by the military in some capacity.  $75,000.00 can by an awful lot of crack.  And yet to date there has been no takers.    

  
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on March 20, 2010, 06:59:17 PM
I do believe I remember the story in the news that the two young  women being raped and strangled. As far as I understand there was no mention of a knife. But there have been other murders in the area besides Kathleen's that were victims of other methods. I think that when the investigation started related to Kathleen that it got off on the wrong road and somehow got derailed. They always say that the first 72 hours into the investigation are paramount in solving the crime. I believe the officers have to start from scratch and go over every piece of information and interview everyone they interviewed the first time. Go back to square one and do it all over again, that is what they have to do.  8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: jobo on March 20, 2010, 07:22:45 PM
AmIam, I feel bad for your pain and frustration, regarding Kathleen's uncolved murder.  I understand now that I have joined this group, how many murdered/missing unsolved cases there are.  There is also many unidentified remains.  Too many unanswered questions.  That is incredibly sad, and frustrating.  So many stories of bungled police work, and contaminated scenes, and searches ended too soon. There is too many perps, some known to the victims families, walking around free, possibly /probably to strike again.  It is especially sad when Kathleen a young girl, full of life, visiting from a different province, gets brutally murdered.  And no one has come up with solid clues in nine years now.  Capeheart, I agree, they should go back to square one, and re-interview people living around there, and friends and associates.  People change, circumstances change, and the reward money doesn't hurt.  Someone they come across, may be more willing to talk.  Someone knows something.     
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Another Trentonian on March 20, 2010, 08:36:17 PM
I should have started a personal file of news reports regarding Williams when he was arrested..I didn't do this.  Case in point, it was initally reported he owned 3 homes but the police only searched 2..where was the 3rd?  I asked that question here somewhere and a poster responded that his/her relative, rents his property on the base.   

I am not sure what this means that another poster's relative rents his property on the base.  Did you mean they rented the Base Commander's property?  Do you mean the former Base Commander's house, which has not been occupied by the Base Commander of the day for many years?

If Williams was posted to Trenton and his wife stayed in Ottawa, his posting would be with an imposed restriction (IR).  This would mean that he would be entitled to lodgings on the base.  Maybe this is what they meant when they referred to his home on the base.  Since he had a cottage/home in Tweed, that might have been considered his IR lodgings, but I doubt it.  However, I also believe that there is a Base Commander's suite at the Officers' Mess but I don't know if he would actually stay there or not or if it is only used during official functions.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Another Trentonian on March 20, 2010, 08:47:01 PM
Okay, I did a search and I found it.  

Yes, the home in Trenton is being lived in by my nieces best friend and her family. Sorry, all I can say is its on the base. Very touchy situation for their family right now too. That information just came to my attention yesterday afternoon from the parent themself.

All residences on military bases are federal property.  Military members do not own them.  They rent them.  If Tina is referring to what used to be the designated Base Commander's house, Williams never lived in it.  It was never his house.  So I don't know why it would be a touchy situation for the family.  

Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on March 21, 2010, 05:35:11 PM
 Trentonian, It has been reported that Williams was posted in both Ottawa and Trenton during the time of Kathleen's murder..he was working in both locations.  At what capacity, I have no idea.. you would be the better one to determine this and fill us in.

At the time of Kathleen's murder, Williams was NOT the designated Base Commander. 

Perhaps the report Williams "owned" a home on the base is media error???  Perhaps he rented during the time period of Kathleen's murder?


All residences on military bases are federal property.  Military members do not own them.  They rent them.  If Tina is referring to what used to be the designated Base Commander's house, Williams never lived in it.  It was never his house.  So I don't know why it would be a touchy situation for the family.

 

Obviously Williams was again, NOT the base commander when Kathleen was murdered so why would he be living in the Base Commander's house??? But there are other homes that as you have made clear are owned by feds but rented by military people.  Perhaps TinaS is aware Williams rented one of these homes and perhaps, just perhaps, the relatives are uncomfortable with this knowledge?? I certainly would be.

Just speculation on my part, but IF Williams had rented a property on base during the time of Kathleen's murder, ANd if it is true Kathleen's was killed elsewhere, well there ya go.  Killers don't usually dump bodies close to home but in the case of Jessica Lloyd, her body was found close to Williams home in Tweed.  And he hunted down, raped and terriorized two of his neighbours in Tweed and one he waved to after the assault.  Oh yes..and as he was the base commander ay 8 Wing, Trenton, he approved the air search for Jessica...

Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Another Trentonian on March 21, 2010, 07:03:35 PM
I haven't seen anything that said that he was posted in Trenton during the time of Kathleen's murder.  His biography says that he was a Career Manager in Ottawa from 1999 to 2003.  I have never heard of anyone being posted two places at once, except when you go on deployment.  Even then, I don't think it a deployment is considered a posting.  As a Career Manager he would have travelled to bases where there are pilots. 

I misunderstood what was quoted about the house then, as all I found was a quote of the comment.  Not sure where the comment actually originated.  I thought it was saying that he owned a house now and they were renting it from him.  However, it would be a media error if it stated he owned a house on the base.  Nobody owns houses on the base.  They are all rented out.  If he occupied a house on the base during Kathleen's murder then it would have been rented.  He could have owned one off the base.  I am wondering though, as I heard a report his wife had worked for the Heart & Stroke for 20 years.  So if she was working for them in Ottawa, then why would he rent a house here on the base?  If she didn't accompany him, then he would most likely live in imposed restriction accommodations.  That is if he lived here in 2001.  I only have seen that he was living here from 2004 to 2006.

He might not necessarily approve the search and rescue mission.  I cannot say for sure as I do not know who exactly approves the Search and Rescue missions -- the CO of 424 Sqn, the Operations Officer or the Base Commander.  I guess it depends on the circumstances.  I would think that the CO of 424 would have some power to authorize a search if requested by the OPP.  But that is just my feelings.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on March 22, 2010, 05:19:59 PM
Somewhere in this mirade of posts and threads there is a news link posted that states Williams WAS in Trenton during the time of Kathleen's murder.  The article goes on to say he was posted in Ottawa but spent time here as well, and during that particular time frame.  Williams, from what I have read was never deployed, so thank Canada's lucky stars, his victims and their families,  he won't be able to claim PTSD.  The nearest he came to the Middle East was Camp Mirage, this information is here ( or somewhere) as well...

I wondered myself how he could be based in both Trenton & Ottawa but now it's clear.  Trenton has the largest air base in Canada.  This guy loved to fly and it has been reported that even as a Colonel, he flew aircraft.  Perhaps as Career Manager he did a little training with some of the other pilots??

Regarding the rented property on base.  TinaS, wrote in response to a question I posed as I had heard Williams had three homes.  I am unable to find my comment..perhaps it became lost when threads appeared. Regardless, TinaS, states that relatives now occupy Williams house on base. So I gather it was a rented property..how many people have lived there since Williams, I have no idea.  Perhaps her relatives have learned he was an occupant...at one time....

Williams wife, Mary Elizabeth Harriman,... it has been reported she is high up in the Heart and Stroke Foundation, in Ottawa.  When and how long she has held this position in Ottawa, has never been mentioned. Prior to becoming base commander, they owned a home in Ottawa.  Bought the infamous cottage in Tweed, where either Williams commuted on weekends to Ottawa or his wife would join him at "cottage"  Williams and "Mary Beth" as he called her were often seen walking hand and hand at the cottage.  This information, is also posted here or somewhere in an interview given by Larry Jones, Williams next door neighbour, who was originally accused of the sexually assaults and forcible confinement of Williams two neighbours

Williams and Mary Beth, owned a home in Ottawa..Orleans, I believe and were in the process of buliding a new dream home when he was arrested at that location and taken into custody. 

So given he has been charged with his most recent crimes and given it has been determined he was spending time in Trenton during the time of Kathleen's murder..and rented an on base property and given that everywhere he has been posted, young women have been found murdered near military bases..not to mention the ones who have gone missing over the years or found murdered in close proximity of his parents home in Toronto.  The police across Canada have a very long investigation.

But hopefully after Williams' trial for the murders and sexual assaults in and around the Trenton area, the next charge will be for Kathleen MacVicars murder.  Only time will tell but I imagine the most current charges and trial will take years to come to fruition.

   


Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on March 29, 2010, 04:05:20 PM
Hey Suzanne, for a moment there I was a little confused until I realised you changed your screen name from " Another Trentonian"
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Another Trentonian on March 29, 2010, 08:41:03 PM
Yup, decided to change it in honour of my aunt who passed away recently at the age of 90.   She had a good long life and judging from the people attending her memorial service, and many children, grandchildren and great grandchildren.

Sorry to confuse you.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on March 30, 2010, 04:12:57 PM
Suzanne, the confusion was brief, no apology required. ;)

Yes, 90 years is  a wonderfully long life.  I always admire the elderly, they have seen so much in their years and have so many words of wisdom.  They have so much to share, if only the younger people would listen. No camouflage with the elderly, that's for a certainty!

I gather from the words of your post you weren't close.   
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Another Trentonian on March 30, 2010, 08:24:18 PM
Language differences, a generational difference of 20 years from the oldest to the youngest, added to the fact that military life caused us to move all over the country and not see family regularly, made it difficult to be close to a large number of family members.  However she did leave a great legacy. 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: aura1 on March 30, 2010, 08:41:08 PM
Was Robert Brickman considered as a possible perp?
While driving my brother's car, he was in an accident.  My brother and my brother's girlfriend were found dead in the back seat.  The reports were never released to our family.  Brickman spent a few weeks to a few months(?) in jail and then was driving taxi in the Trenton area shortly afterward.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on March 31, 2010, 02:46:55 PM
Aura1;  sorry about your brother and his girlfriend, so tragic. I don't recall that accident.  When did it happen, if you don't mind me asking?

Is this the same Robert Brickman who is in jail for the murder of Sara Martin?  I don't know if that trial is over..

I have no idea if the OPP looked at him as a suspect in Kathleen's murder, I would have imagined so..but ya never know.

Was Robert Brickman considered as a possible perp?
While driving my brother's car, he was in an accident.  My brother and my brother's girlfriend were found dead in the back seat.  The reports were never released to our family.  Brickman spent a few weeks to a few months(?) in jail and then was driving taxi in the Trenton area shortly afterward.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: aura1 on March 31, 2010, 04:19:59 PM
It happened many years ago.
We were never led to believe that thier deaths were due to foul play.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on March 31, 2010, 04:42:01 PM
Aura1, thanks.  Not certain if I am reading something more into your comments but I get the impression you have a feeling there is more to this than a tragic accident?

I don't know much about Brickman..is a he a bad dude with a long history of offences before he killed Sara Martin?  I have a couple of news stories about his arrest of her murder.  Opp arrested him for her murder at the Quinte West Detention Center..as he was being released from jail on " historical assault charges"  ( I have NO idea what sort of charges these are.)

However, he seems to have a very good lawyer who keeps managing to delay the trial. 

As I said, I don't know the Brickman name, no council person by that name here in Trenton. At least not that I know of..but perhaps a relative of one??  Seems to me, if all he received for causing the death of your brother and the girlfriend when Brickman was behind the wheel was a few months in jail..something doesn't seem right.  And after that he drove a cab in Trenton..they didn't suspend his license??     
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: jobo on March 31, 2010, 05:05:06 PM
I'll be really surprised if they charge Williams with Kathleen's murder.  I don't think he did it, I don't think it fits with the way Williams operated.  I cannot see him taking the chance of being seen with blood on his clothes.  I think that Williams was more of a go into your home type of perp.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: aura1 on March 31, 2010, 07:14:26 PM
Brickman never seemed to be a bad guy.  Always smiling, friendly.  That sort of thing.

Also, I have a sense that Williams is not connected directly with the MacVicar death either.  Time may tell.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on April 01, 2010, 04:12:02 PM
Jobo, Williams was never a suspect to me regarding Kathleen's murder, until he was charged with these recent crimes.  However, I have always felt her murder was committed by a military person, given the location her body was discovered.  Obviously, the police were unablible to pin the crime on the usual local subjects.  As well from a news report, ( IF this can be believed) there was a brief mention Kathleen's body had been moved.   

I'll be really surprised if they charge Williams with Kathleen's murder.  I don't think he did it, I don't think it fits with the way Williams operated.  I cannot see him taking the chance of being seen with blood on his clothes.  I think that Williams was more of a go into your home type of perp.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on April 01, 2010, 04:19:54 PM
Aura1,  I don't know Brickman, never met him, would know him if I saw him.  I don't even know if he has a record..I can't find anything.
I would imagine though that the OPP have some serious stuff that can tie him into Sara's murder or they wouldn't have charged him.
Always smiling and friendly is not always a good indicator as to whether or not someone has the propensity to be a killer.
 



Brickman never seemed to be a bad guy.  Always smiling, friendly.  That sort of thing.

Also, I have a sense that Williams is not connected directly with the MacVicar death either.  Time may tell.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: aura1 on April 01, 2010, 05:05:03 PM
exactly
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on April 01, 2010, 06:10:58 PM
Aura1.."exactly" like meaning my last sentence? Or all of it..sometimes I am a little dense with one liners... :)
I would imagine you have Googled Brickman.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: aura1 on April 01, 2010, 06:37:00 PM
what I meant was...although someone seems smily and such does not always mean that there are no underlying issues.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on April 01, 2010, 06:56:58 PM
Aura1, excactly..and that was my point.  One does not know what lies behind the smiles and the nice disposition.

Throughout my life, from the time I was a small kid, I have picked up on things, call them vibes if you will.  There was a sense about people I seemed to be attuned to..most times I never said a word to a soul.  This sense has stayed with me all my life, there have been some people that I have met that everyone I knew thought to be the salt of the earth..but I didn't like them, there just seemed to be something 'wrong'  None turned out to be killers, but usually my hunches proved correct in some other manner.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on April 02, 2010, 09:41:18 AM
AmIam, I also have that in my person, it is called perception. I am very perceptive of people. When people are young they usually trust mostly everybody. I think Kathleen may have been taken by surprise on her walk home. I keep praying this case will be solved.  8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on April 02, 2010, 03:48:24 PM
Hi Cape, thanks for the response..I am breathing a sigh of relief that someone else here has that same intuitiveness!  I was never able to verbalize those feelings as a little kid..there was just sometimes with certain people, I would pick up on something that wasn't quite right.

I too, hope that Kathleen's case will be solved but it's been nearly nine years now and it doesn't seem very hopeful.  Since Kathleen's horrible murder, there have been several others against women in Trenton, I believe in each case the police made arrests. And I hope, they looked at each of those perps for a link to Kathleen..obviously they haven't found one

However, I am not so certain Kathleen was taken by surprise. There must have been some sort of plan..it has never been made clear from the police ( via the media) as to whether or not Middleton Park, was the actual crime scene or was she murdered elsewhere.  All that has been written or released was that her body had been "moved"   
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: jobo on April 02, 2010, 05:00:03 PM
That would be a very important clue too, whether or not Kathleen's body was moved after death...I also feel the perp has ties to the base, but not necessarily a person of uniform. 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on April 03, 2010, 05:43:14 PM
Jobo, I wish I could locate the article regarding Kathleen's body being moved. I cannot remember where I read it but I know it was years ago.

However, the link below states, as well as Williams homes in Tweed and Ottawa, he also has one here in Trenton.  And this information was given by Larry Jones, Williams next door neighbour, this man was the original  suspect, in the sexual assaults of the two women neighbours.

I would imagine, Larry Jones knows of which he speaks regarding Williams owning a home in Trenton, he knew the guy, lots of neighbours did. 

But where IS this home in Trenton? I haven't heard a word regarding a search.  The ONLY reference to Williams having a place in Trenton, was from TinaS, a member.  She said, relatives are living in the home, which is on base.

The story is below... http://www.montrealgazette.com/Colonel+faces+murder+charges/2536787/story.html
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: jobo on April 03, 2010, 06:59:42 PM
I do not mean to be a smart ass, but I am wondering, do you two think you might have perceived something not right with Williams?  He was pretty professional, and private.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on April 03, 2010, 07:22:01 PM
Jobo..which two are you directing your post toward?

I do not mean to be a smart ass, but I am wondering, do you two think you might have perceived something not right with Williams?  He was pretty professional, and private.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: jobo on April 03, 2010, 07:27:38 PM
sorry, I meant you, amIam and capeheart.  I know you have never met Williams, but based on what we all have seen of him, what do you think?  Would you feel leary of him, or just automatically trust and respect him because of his rank?
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on April 03, 2010, 08:10:11 PM
Jobo, I am a civilian resident of Trenton.  I am just an ordinary retired stiff with no connection to the military. There are many military personelle I come across on a daily basis.  I assume they are military as they are in military uniform.

I was unaware I had run across Williams until after his arrest and I recognized his picture.  I had seen him numerous times, we banked at the same bank, once while in line up he was behind me and stepped ahead, asking if I minded... just prior to Christmas past, I was in a Trenton jewellery store to make a purchase, Williams walked in and the sales person just deserted me on the spot hell bent on tending to Williams.  I walked out.

From both these instances and not knowing WHO he was as I didn't care..he was just another military person with the usual attitude.  But, in retrospect, it was his eyes..he made eye contact with me on both occasions but he didn't look at me, he looked through me..know what I mean? 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: jobo on April 04, 2010, 07:18:12 AM
Yes, I do know what you mean.  His eyes.  They say the eyes are the window to the soul....
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on April 04, 2010, 03:37:39 PM
His eyes are devoid of a soul.  In retrospect, I wish I had paid more attention to him.  I didn't get my usual bad vibe feeling about him..probably due in the most part to his arrogance and my resulting anger. 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on April 06, 2010, 05:55:36 PM
Jobo, no, I would not trust him because of his rank and his position in the military. I worked in a place where there were all kinds of persons who were high profile positions and because of their positions, I did not trust them because of their high education and their status. My perception and feelings about people helped me in many ways throughout my life. And ranks and education has nothing to do with it, if the evil is there, it is there.  It is like a vibe or a gut feeling you have about someone and if you have that feeling, follow it, because there is a reason that you have that feeling. 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on April 07, 2010, 03:56:00 PM
Cape, having been involved over the years with persons of power, rank and (what they perceived to have) a higher level of intelligence, I learned quickly not to trust.
The gut instinct, or sixth sense I have toward certain people is I agree a totally different thing.  There's something about them that seems to emanate but others seem unaware.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on April 07, 2010, 04:59:53 PM
I came across this article awhile back, OPP believed at the time, Kathleen's murder was committed by the same man who attacked a woman in London, ON in 2001.

I searched the London papers but found nothing UNTIL I went to the London Police website.  BINGO

I posted them both together, hope it's not too confusing!



Police to probe MacVicar case
Posted By QMI AGENCY
Posted 1 month ago
 

Investigators will look into the unsolved murder of Kathleen MacVicar as they probe cases that may have intersected with the life of the man now accused of two murders near CFB Trenton.

Police said on Monday they will be investigating any connection to the 19-year-old's brutal murder in June 2001. The Nova Scotia teen was found in Middleton Park, a housing development inside CFB Trenton. MacVicar was staying with family at CFB Trenton when she disappeared June 13, 2001. Two days later her body was found in a wooded corner of the base. She had been raped and stabbed to death.


A year after MacVicar was found, police announced a $50,000 reward for information leading to the conviction of her killer. At the time, police said they believed the killer might be the same person who attacked a London, Ont., woman that same year. The woman survived the knife-point attack.

A task force from both London and Belleville said at the time they were looking for a man in his 20s or 30s, with a history of violence toward women.

Article ID# 2441006

http://www.thepeterboroughexaminer.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2441006


On Friday, October 19, 2001, shortly before 6:30 a.m., a 33 year old London female was walking down a path on Leroy Avenue when she was attacked by an unknown male who stabbed her numerous times.

The suspect in this unprovoked attack is described as: male, white, 5'8"- 6’0”, early 30's, wearing dark clothing, possibly wearing a dark jacket with stripes down the sleeves. The suspect is not known to the victim.

While processing the crime scene, the handle of a kitchen-style utility knife was found at the site. The London Police Service is asking the public to view this knife handle and compare it with any knives that they may have in their own residences.

The victim was also carrying a backpack at the time of the attack, which was stolen by the suspect. The London Police Service is asking the members of the public to check their properties for a similar back pack. The backpack is described as a green and beige backpack with black patches on it.

This investigation has been linked behaviourally to a homicide being investigated by the Ontario Provincial Police and the Quinte West Police Service in Trenton, Ontario. A behaviour profile of the suspect was created with the assistance of the Ontario Provincial Police's Behaviour Sciences Section and is as follows:

On the date of the attack, the suspect was a newcomer to London or had recently returned from an extended absence and is familiar with the area of the attack.
The suspect will be known, by those close to him, as having a quick temper, anger towards women, or an impulsive personality.
On the date of the attack, the suspect may have been noticeably absent from his regular activities, such as being late for work or absent from home.
In the days or weeks leading up to the attack, the suspect would have likely suffered a conflict or set back in his life.
Following the attack, those close to the suspect would have noticed a change in the suspect's normal behaviour, such as becoming more reserved or low key.
Following the attack, the suspect may have spoken to those close to him about making a change in his life such as quitting his job or leaving town.
THE SUSPECT IS AT A HIGH RISK TO RE-OFFEND
The London Police Service is asking members of the public for their assistance in identifying any male with any similarities to the above profile or description.

Should you have any information regarding the above case, please contact:
Criminal Investigation Division of the London Police Service,
“Project Shadow” at 519-661-2376, 1-888-465-2973,
e-mail tip@police.london.ca ,
or contact Crime Stoppers at 519-661-TIPS

http://www.police.london.ca/d.aspx?s=/Newsroom/Unsolved_Crimes/ProjectShadow.htm
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on April 07, 2010, 05:30:15 PM
Am, thanx for posting that report. I do remember that the police kind of thought these cases might be connected, because of the knife attack. It is possibly the same individual that has committed these crimes. The other woman was very lucky to survive. This had to be a planned attack, because the person was carrying a knife. The profile of the killer is very helpful, if anyone can go back in time and think of someone they may know that would be capable or would fit the profile. If anyone has the slightest feeling that they know someone that could have committed this crime, they should contact the police. Hopefully they will get the monster that did this to Kathleen. 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on April 07, 2010, 06:02:06 PM
Cape, I posted this information in fairness and to point out that at the time of Kathleen's murder, there was no mention by the police of any military person  being involved in her murder.  Four months later a similar attack occurs in London..but wrong time of day and yes, thankfully the woman survived. 

But that was then and this is now, for the police are now looking at Williams.  Or maybe they are having thoughts of others at CFB Trenton.....   
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on April 07, 2010, 06:08:45 PM
As long as they keep investigating and keep this case out there, maybe it will be solved.  8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on April 07, 2010, 06:18:17 PM
Cape, yes, if anything, these horrible crimes Williams committed has at the very least, rekindled an interest in Kathleen's murder and generated a new lead (s) 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on April 09, 2010, 04:05:12 PM
It's been so very long since Kathleen was murdered that it difficult to find anything, however, I found this article.  Within the article it states Kathleen was sexually violated..this is the very first media confirmation I have been able to obtain that confirms what was told to me by a source close to the investigation.

Kathleen's mother, even Coleen feels it was someone on the base that killed her daughter.
__________________________________________________________________
Kathleen McVicar's family wants closure
Posted By QMI AGENCY
Posted 1 month ago
 

For almost nine years, Colleen MacVicar has been waiting for her phone to ring.

"Every day we think about who killed Kathleen," she said Monday from her Glace Bay, N.S. home. "We are wondering all the time."

The phone rang, but it was not the police.

"We were told by family that there was something going on in Trenton," she said in an interview. "Needless to say we are monitoring it."


In June 2001, the 19-year-old, visiting her aunt and uncle at CFB Trenton, was found stabbed and sexually violated in a wooded section of the base. The case has never been solved.

"Devastating," said Colleen of Monday's developments.

"I felt sick to my stomach. We have always felt it was somebody on the base who had done this and had always hoped it would one day be solved."

Perhaps the arrest of CFB Trenton's commanding officer, she said, is a step toward that.

OPP Commissioner Julian Fantino said Monday that every aspect of connections between the suspect in custody and the slain Kathleen will be explored.

Calling the allegations against Col. Russ Williams "disturbing," Fantino said the OPP, Belleville Police and military investigators will work to get to the bottom of this.

"We are anxious to hear what those results will be," said Colleen.

Advertisement

 
"What happened (Monday) is like reliving that death all over again and we will help police in any way we can."

Article ID# 2442271
http://www.intelligencer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2442271
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: jobo on April 09, 2010, 09:35:53 PM
I am glad that they are taking a new look at the unsolved murder of Kathleen MacVicar.  I gather that the connection they are making to this crime, and the crime on a 33 year old in London in 2001, is that it is in the same year, and what? the same kind of knife was used?  It was a kichen style utility knife?  If that is the case, then I still do not think it was Williams. I believe he preferred a soft kill, he may have brought a knife to his crime scenes, but that was probably for the fear factor on his victims.  I think he was too careful, and would not risk getting blood on himself.  On the other hand, that is the year Williams parents divorced...he was not happy about that. But what would take him to London?
I do not rule out someone with ties to the base in Trenton, for Kathleen's murder, but there isn't any armed forces bases out London way, that I could determine.  So what else would tie Trenton and London, unless the possible perp did have ties to both places, but why?  Worked in Trenton, but came from London?  Or, worked in London, but came from Trenton? Kathleen was murdered in June 2001 , and the 33 year old from London was attacked in October of 2001, and robbed of her knapsack...I don't recall if Kathleen was robbed of anything. 
I would love to know why they are relating these two crimes to each other, because from what I can get of this is that one crime was sexual in nature, and the other was a robbery...and in both, a knife was used, but I still do not see a huge connection, from what I know ???...
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on April 10, 2010, 06:15:00 PM
Jobo, I understood the article I to read,  initially, Trenton OPP believed Kathleen's murder was linked to a similar attack on a London woman, four months later.  What or whom Trenton police were investigating from the date of Kathleen's murder to the attack on the woman in London is anyone's guess.

It has never been mentioned that anything was stolen from Kathleen.  It has never been mentioned a knife was recovered.  But Kathleen's body was moved according to police..but from where?  Did they determine from another location or just killed a few feet from where she was dumped.

Information is very scant on this case, the most I have ever found is on CBC.  I went so far as to book time at the Trenton library to check back issues of the local paper, the Trentonian.  The is very little reported.

I have mentioned before, that in 2001,  the local police, the municiple gov, mayor, former newspaper owner, etc were all bed fellows as well as the military higher ups.

Kathleen's murder feel into that time frame, since then there has been an entire shake up here.

I still think it was Williams, he was here..yes, officially posted in Ottawa but he split his time during the summer of 2001.  No knife in his past? No, he didn't stab the lady he terrorised and raped..but he brought it along, didn't he?  Would he have used it if she had seen his face??? As well, there is a knife involved in the murder of Cpl. Marie Comeau...

 

 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: aura1 on April 12, 2010, 07:43:27 AM
Were there other girls missing from Trenton-Belleville-Picton area in the year  or a few years before/after KM was murdered?
Where abouts was she residing when she died?
Was she in school and if so which one?

The reason why I ask is because my gut tells me that she may not have been the only one and that she may have gone to a party (like a pit-party) near the time and location of her murder.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on April 12, 2010, 09:10:25 AM
 I don't believe for a minute, at this point in time, that where Kathleen's body was found, was the scene of the crime.  I think a lot of people believe this also.  It doesn't seem like William's m.o. because he is known to attack inside??? well maybe not.... because we don't know for sure all/ which other murders can be attributed to him. Kathleen was stabbed.  It was commented:

Quote
No, he didn't stab the lady he terrorised and raped..but he brought it along, didn't he?  Would he have used it if she had seen his face??? As well, there is a knife involved in the murder of Cpl. Marie Comeau...


No disrespect to our dear Kathleen ... in fact just the opposite .... but I must say:  I'm a Caper (from Cape Breton) and a girl from CB doesn't "go down" easily unless a scumb bag surprises her.  So if you pull a knife on most any girl from CB, you'd better be prepared to use it.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: aura1 on April 12, 2010, 09:26:35 AM
you seem to have fairly reliable gut feelings.
how do you feel about Ameliasburg Ward?
There is a spot down in there where unopened road allowances meet as a cross in the centre of woods.
I have had a premonition that she went to a "pit-party" (whether in a pit or not) near there and it was after that she is killed.
In my premonition, she spots a small lake to her left as she travels south down a farmers lane. 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on April 12, 2010, 09:37:00 AM
I'm going to check that out when I get back from lunch aura;  you've got me curious.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on April 12, 2010, 05:28:55 PM
aura; is this the place?

Driving directions to Ameliasburg, Prince Edward, ON
20.0 km – about 22 mins
Suggested routes

 
 

 Trenton, ON 

1. Head southwest on Dundas St W toward Queen St  450 m
2. Turn left at Dufferin Ave  1.1 km
3. Slight right at Carrying Pl Rd  2.9 km
4. Continue onto Loyalist Pkwy  7.9 km
5. Turn left at County Rd-19  7.7 km

 AmeliasburgPrince Edward, ON
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on April 12, 2010, 05:35:39 PM
Aura1, it has been said and posted here by members who were with Kathleen the evening she was murdered; that she declined a drive and  chose to walk home from the family gathering at Cresswell Dr.  The poster stated, cameras  picked her up near a downtown jewellery store.  I have always found this odd as if one was on foot in Trenton, enroute to the base ( home for Kathleen), to pass by the jewellery store would be such a long route.
I appreciate you comment regarding Ameliaburg Ward.  But this is miles south of Kathleen's home.
Too bad we don't know how long she lay dead in Middleton Park as she had been missing for two days.
We will never know what a screw up of police procedure.  

you seem to have fairly reliable gut feelings.
how do you feel about Ameliasburg Ward?
There is a spot down in there where unopened road allowances meet as a cross in the centre of woods.
I have had a premonition that she went to a "pit-party" (whether in a pit or not) near there and it was after that she is killed.
In my premonition, she spots a small lake to her left as she travels south down a farmers lane.  
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: aura1 on April 12, 2010, 06:22:06 PM
If we take a look at Creswell Drive, it joins onto Dundas about two blocks east of the Jewelry store.  If she were walking home to the base, would she have not more likely walked Creswell drive down past the A&P and the Tim Hortons by the bridge?  Why did she go out of her way to walk up to the Hwy 2 (Dundas Street)?  Another detail is that the Jewelry store is close/beside/across the street from the Movie Theater.  It is a long haul to walk to the base from there.  This is why my preminition that she met a date that night after her friends left her.  I think she was meeting someone for a date that night and the place to meet her date was somewhere around the movie theater.  Later that night, after a party she was taken by someone and killed.  This is why the Ameliasburg Ward could make sense.  A 19 year old woman in her right mind would not turn down a ride from the movie theater to the base unless she had other plans.  I feel that the answers to her disappearance may be found by trying to think of anyone she may have been meeting that night.  My understanding is that the man accused of murdering a woman found on the mountain in Trenton was residing just blocks from where Kathleen was last seen and that he was charged for assault of at least one other murder and was connected to the death of two other people (when they were 19 years old also) after they were at a pitparty in or near Ameliasburg township and niether of them were from Trenton (one-5 minutes east of the base and one ten minutes north of the base).
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on April 12, 2010, 06:43:51 PM
The more I hear of this; the more certain I feel the cops didn't give a "whoot" about what happened to my fellow Caper.  Was there any mention of the police questioning that known offender?  I wonder if they are "don't particularly like Maritimers" type?  I'm not suggesting they are; but I lived in Toronto in 1965-66 and it was a well known fact that when TO police picked up a maritime guy for something, they always kicked the #^&* out of him.  They didn't trust maritimers back then.... it was always beat first, question later.  Maybe a little bit of that old lack of respect for Maritimers still exists to some extent with some of the good old boys.  I'm probably wrong for even entaining such a thought, but good lord, ordinary citizens would have done a better job on that case, given the opportunity imo!
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on April 12, 2010, 07:35:04 PM
Lost, I just wonder too because she was not from there that they were not spending a great deal of time trying to solve this crime. It is very difficult for the famly to keep at them about solving the case, because they are way down here and it would be difficult to do anything. If they lived up there they could camp on the doorstep of the police station until they got some answers. It does sound like a bungled job. I think they have to have a blueprint to follow in solving some of these cases and I don't think they are following it. There should be a check list to go by in these cases, especially a murder case.  :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: aura1 on April 13, 2010, 03:42:48 AM
I don't know what Kathleen was like, but I do know how 19 year olds can be.  A private date would make sense, but only private to some, not all.  Just because noone alegedly mentioned this date or where she was going, it is difficult to believe that she told nobody.  Silence in a community does not always mean nothing happened.

As for the party, it was only in a preminition..."after leaving the party."  But she had just left a party before she disappeared (as I just found out).  The date could have been as you mentioned, like a private one.

Trenton has become riddled with the drug trade, assaults, gang activity, and murders.  For a 19 year old lady to be standing by herself on/near the main street corner can lead to many possible outcomes.  However, brainstorming may jog some observations that never really made sense. 

When every every rock has been turned over and nothing is found, it is time to look under ground for clues. 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on April 13, 2010, 10:46:06 AM
without re-reading the whole thread, does anyone remember if Kathleen's computer was checked out? (assuming she had one...it was 9 yrs. ago...not everybody had one, where now they are part of most households.)  Nine years ago, all lot of the younger crowd were into Yahoo...msn...etc. always making and hooking up with new friends.  It was fun back then.... until people got a few bad scares with cases like the woman in PEI who met a guy from one of those sites and he abducted her. 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: aura1 on April 13, 2010, 12:28:42 PM
That would be good to know.

Was she part of any network?

If she was, there is a good chance someone might know.

It is similar to the Jessica Loyd situation where I know from on of Jessica's friends that she was on a dating website but even when I brought it up in a post a while ago, no-one seemed to want to address it.  These sorts of communities can hold a vast amount of information. 

Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on April 13, 2010, 01:16:06 PM
the popular ones back then aura, were "Capers Corner" and a few other Maritime rooms....(not sure which site those were in, but there were "rooms" on that site.... you could chat in a bunch and/or private) all maritimers connected throughout the country on those two sites.  I know that there's a "Capers Corner" run from here in Cape Breton now...mostly locals on it, but then again, I haven't been on it for years.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: aura1 on April 13, 2010, 03:12:40 PM
hey lost,
would there be any back files, or back posts one could access now?

On another note, I have worked with other east coasters on missing persons cases and I have to say, if you want to cover something up, you'ld better make sure it is a life time effort because you east coasters never seem to give up or forget.  I think I might be an east coaster at heart.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on April 13, 2010, 04:20:57 PM
.....lol aura; and I guess I'm one of the one's that never gives up.  ....by the way, Eastcoasters don't forget anything.... they just clam up, unless they have an interest in whatever it is.  They look out for #1 if there danger or contraversy envolved.... except the ones like me and Maureen, who never shut up.
You could google Capers Corner and join that.  ....also you could do a search for Maritime Chat Rooms; that might bring you a source to bring up this subject on, and get some feedback.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on April 13, 2010, 06:13:41 PM
Aura1, I have to go back and recap a few of a comments from other posters here..way, way back..

Someone posted, they were with Kathleen at the home on Cresswell Dr.  It was a gathering and NOT a party.  The person left, offered Kathleen a drive home to her uncle's place on the base but Kathleen wasn't ready to leave just then.

Cresswell Dr., is somewhat of a long street, I have no idea of the house number of the gathering.  But a poster commented it would take only 20 mins to walk from the address to the base.  I disagreed as there is NO way..this is a long trek.

A poster mentioned, a video camera at a jewellery store caught her on camera, walking eastward and alone.  At the time of Kathleen's murder there were 3 jewellery stores in downtown Trenton..which one??  Of the video, I never heard  a word in the papers.

And the local paper is another thing.  The Trentonian was not online at the time of Kathleen's murder.  However, the local library assured me they have ALL issues, from  the date the paper first published..1868.  I booked a date to view the papers from the time Kathleen's body was found and to the library attendent's great surprise, the microfilm is not there.  She was very puzzled as the film must be signed out and checked back in..however, ( stated) no one has asked to view this for years..SO it could have been lost when the library moved....geez.

The local police investigation into Kathleen's murder was a comedy of errors, they were in way over their heads, and with Kathleen's body being found on military property compounded the issue.  The scene was compromised from the beginning and this I know personally. Finally after a number of days, the OPP were brought in.  ( You know how it used to be here)

The theater and Rolfs jewellery store has me puzzled..why do you think there?  Ameliaburg has me puzzled also? Kathleen was not a partier, or so some posters who knew her have said.  The person you have mentioned; was he driving cab at the time of Kathleen's murder and was he working at Stream as well?

Oh..BTW, Lost and Cape..I'm a Maritimer also, Trinity Bay, NF and St. Martins, NB..lol



If we take a look at Creswell Drive, it joins onto Dundas about two blocks east of the Jewelry store.  If she were walking home to the base, would she have not more likely walked Creswell drive down past the A&P and the Tim Hortons by the bridge?  Why did she go out of her way to walk up to the Hwy 2 (Dundas Street)?  Another detail is that the Jewelry store is close/beside/across the street from the Movie Theater.  It is a long haul to walk to the base from there.  This is why my preminition that she met a date that night after her friends left her.  I think she was meeting someone for a date that night and the place to meet her date was somewhere around the movie theater.  Later that night, after a party she was taken by someone and killed.  This is why the Ameliasburg Ward could make sense.  A 19 year old woman in her right mind would not turn down a ride from the movie theater to the base unless she had other plans.  I feel that the answers to her disappearance may be found by trying to think of anyone she may have been meeting that night.  My understanding is that the man accused of murdering a woman found on the mountain in Trenton was residing just blocks from where Kathleen was last seen and that he was charged for assault of at least one other murder and was connected to the death of two other people (when they were 19 years old also) after they were at a pitparty in or near Ameliasburg township and niether of them were from Trenton (one-5 minutes east of the base and one ten minutes north of the base).
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: LanesEnd on April 14, 2010, 01:17:01 AM
I find it interesting that this particular microfilm is missing.  One must wonder if it actually was lost when the library moved or if there is a more sinister explanation.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on April 14, 2010, 08:39:46 AM
LanesEnd, nothing would surprise me any longer....

Very little was ever published about the murder in the Trentonian newspaper. I only wanted to re-read what was reported, make copies and retype them on this thread.

Belleville, a short distance from Trenton has an excellent library.  When I can find the time, I intend to do a search of the Belleville Intelligencer archives.   

 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on April 14, 2010, 11:44:17 AM
I smell a cover-up .... reason for it, I don't know.  Was the bungled investigation really just that .... or was it, as in the Clayton Miller case - a deliberate cover-up.
In this case, the cover-up could be to call attention away from the sloppy, inept police work .... how can we be sure?
How could the police be so "on the ball" in the Russell Willaims case? 
Is it the same police; if it is, they couldn't have accidently dropped the ball in Kathleens investigation.
I can't help but wonder if Kathleen's death isn't tied to somebody with some kind of inflence or protection.  The other alternative was she didn't qualify as worthy of getting justice (for some reason).  ....as in, she was considered an out-of-towner; and sometimes things happen to strangers and police can't waste too much time on these things, because they have little knowledge of the person and their life.  just thinking out loud folks.....
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: jobo on April 14, 2010, 11:57:34 AM
I would (in my perfect world) have thought that since Kathleen's body was found on base property, and Kathleen was from another province...the authorities would want fast answers..and just the opposite happened....I also, am suspicious of the goings on with this case. ;)
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on April 14, 2010, 04:05:13 PM
I wish I could find some links to post regarding Kathleen's murder.  The case is so very old and cold and at the time there was little in local the paper and it was not online .The most I have ever learned about this case is from the local posters here, those who knew her, etc.  I have another side to the case as I know a few people who were involved with the investigation but long after Kathleen's murder.

The header for this case is confusing to those who are unware what or where is " Quinte West" .  It is a city that was formally named Trenton, the home of CFB Trenton.  "Quinte West" encompasses a number of smaller communities through almagamation a number of years ago.

At the time of Kathleen's murder, we had our own tiny police force. These were the ones who responded to the call..but Kathleen's body was found in Middleton park... military property......but recently opened to the public.    ( A military poster, clued me in that the park had public access....I was unaware!) Perhaps the local police weren't either..as jurisdiction was finally ironed out.  And the local police were in over their heads...days later the OPP Forensics unit was brought in...too late.

(The Trenton Police force is no more, the police chief was fired a few years later, the lead investigator of Kathleen's murder was found to be unqualified for his position and demoted. A few others, whose names I cannot mention were investigated for bribery, ticket fixing, etc.  A female civilian employee was charged and convicted of theft within the department. There was much going on in the former Trenton police force)

And the town was an old boys club, right down to the newspaper baron and the former mayor and many council members, with the base being heavily involved with much goings on within the community.  The town is cleaned up now..at least with regard to the police, we now have the OPP and they are the ones that caught Williams.

Kathleen MacVicar was from Glace Bay, NS but here visiting and staying with her uncle who lived on base. I am no certain if her uncle was a military person or a former military person who is employed by the military in some function.  I am unaware if he still lives here.

I would think, since Kathleen was visiting and staying on the base, there would have been an internal investigation into her murder.  The local police had/have no suspects..but perhaps the military did..and perhaps a better suspect since Williams arrest.

Was there a cover-up?  This case stinks to high heaven.   

I smell a cover-up .... reason for it, I don't know.  Was the bungled investigation really just that .... or was it, as in the Clayton Miller case - a deliberate cover-up.
In this case, the cover-up could be to call attention away from the sloppy, inept police work .... how can we be sure?
How could the police be so "on the ball" in the Russell Willaims case? 
Is it the same police; if it is, they couldn't have accidently dropped the ball in Kathleens investigation.
I can't help but wonder if Kathleen's death isn't tied to somebody with some kind of inflence or protection.  The other alternative was she didn't qualify as worthy of getting justice (for some reason).  ....as in, she was considered an out-of-towner; and sometimes things happen to strangers and police can't waste too much time on these things, because they have little knowledge of the person and their life.  just thinking out loud folks.....
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: aura1 on April 14, 2010, 04:49:29 PM
I am unsure if the guy I mention was working at Stream at the time but I know he was driving cab after having two dead people in back seat and getting in an alcohol related accident (at the time I don't know).

That accident had huge coverups at the heart of police force (even the investigating officer had an affair with the mother of one of the people who were killed and the mother carried on a questionable relationship with the man driving the car).

Why the theater beside the jewlry store, because in a premonition I see her getting into the back seat a deep blue car larger sedan.  the man driving had dark brown/black hair and drove west.

Why do I mention Ameliasburg ward...I dowsed the area for the place of Kathleen's death and to my surprise it was south of the bay.  I followed it further to a specific piece of property which again had the small lake my premonition included as she helplessly looked out the driver's side window at it.

I have a strong feeling that the person or persons invloved are very nervous now that conversations about her death have been resurected.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Another Trentonian on April 14, 2010, 08:56:20 PM
She was living with her aunt and uncle.  The uncle was military.   And they were posted after the murder -- I am not sure how long after it was though.  This is confirmed by her cousin, on either the 2nd or 3rd page of this thread. 

I am Kathleen's Cousin, she lived with me before she had moved to Ontario & I was 14 at the time. This is the first time i have ever read these and its nice to know others care. the people looking after the cross are not family! our family that lived on that base had been transferred elsewhere. So if u ever meet these kind people tell them thank you from me please. Kathleen was the best kinda person and I pray that one day we don't have to sit and wonder who did this. Anyways just wanted to say thank you to everyone commenting on this. its July 30Th right now and the last post was yesterday. its hard to believe all this time has gone by. Thanks Everyone!

 http://capebretonpost.com/index.cfm?sid=273652&sc=145

I seen this is this is why i googled her name and came across this site, made me sit and wonder

Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on April 15, 2010, 04:07:06 PM
Aura1,    so you have a hunch the man in the blue sedan was the man you mentioned before???  But why kill Kathleen there and bring her body back to Trenton and place it on the base? Why not just leave her somewhere in Ameliasburg ward?

It has been said here that Kathleen's body had been moved..I wish I could verify this statement and a few others.

I'm happy to hear someone else besides myself is aware of how the former Trenton Police Force covered up. You have to be a resident here and in touch with ...reality  ;) to understand.

I feel so badly for Kathleen's family.  No answers, no arrests after nearly nine years.  It doesn't make sense..or does it?

Even with your premonitions and dousing, I still think Kathleen was murdered by someone on base. And Williams was posted in Ottawa in 2001 but spent time at the base in Trenton.  What for?  But it was mentioned in the media and posted on one of the Williams threads.   

I am unsure if the guy I mention was working at Stream at the time but I know he was driving cab after having two dead people in back seat and getting in an alcohol related accident (at the time I don't know).

That accident had huge coverups at the heart of police force (even the investigating officer had an affair with the mother of one of the people who were killed and the mother carried on a questionable relationship with the man driving the car).

Why the theater beside the jewlry store, because in a premonition I see her getting into the back seat a deep blue car larger sedan.  the man driving had dark brown/black hair and drove west.

Why do I mention Ameliasburg ward...I dowsed the area for the place of Kathleen's death and to my surprise it was south of the bay.  I followed it further to a specific piece of property which again had the small lake my premonition included as she helplessly looked out the driver's side window at it.

I have a strong feeling that the person or persons invloved are very nervous now that conversations about her death have been resurected.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on April 15, 2010, 07:11:38 PM
McKeem, glad you found this site. We have been speaking about Kathleen for a long time on here and we haven't and will not forget her. We want her murder solved. ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Another Trentonian on April 15, 2010, 07:17:33 PM
Robert Brickman has pleaded guilty to the murder of Sarah Martin. 

http://www.trentonian.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2536180

He worked with her at Teletech.  Did he work at Stream when Kathleen Macvicar worked there?
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on April 15, 2010, 07:21:42 PM
Suzanne, I just wonder that also. But they must have questioned him on Kathleen's murder, I believe they would have. I did not even recall that murder and did not know the trial was going on. Well at least that crime has been solved and the family can have some peace. 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Another Trentonian on April 15, 2010, 07:59:32 PM
There was reference to Sarah Martin and Robert Brickman on here a couple of times.  They didn't get to a trial.  He pleaded guilty before that happened.  You are right.... you would think they would check out whether he could have been involved in Kathleen's murder, wouldn't they???
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: aura1 on April 15, 2010, 10:02:47 PM
I cannot say how I know, but I do know that Brickman was as late as last year being investigated for deaths that he was involved with and I am pretty sure, Kathleen was one that they were questioning his involvement.

Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on April 16, 2010, 04:07:24 PM
Aura1,  so now that Brickman has pleaded guilty, I would imagine the OPP will lay further charges? If they have any DNA from any former murders, including Kathleen's, one would think they would have used all they had to nail him. Or perhaps that's the reason for the guilty plea???

I cannot say how I know, but I do know that Brickman was as late as last year being investigated for deaths that he was involved with and I am pretty sure, Kathleen was one that they were questioning his involvement.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: aura1 on April 16, 2010, 06:08:21 PM
amIam,
I think what may have happened is that there may have been more charges and the guilty plea was a deal.  Now, did he plea guilty of first degree murder?

I still feel that he killed the at least one person in the car in 1988.  All the signs pointed to foul play but an accident took precident and the one victim's mother was (I believe) having an affair with Brickman when her child was killed.  I will never be convinced the mother did not know something before the two people were killed.  What I do know is that when Brickman was taken was charged for the death he ahs just plead guilty for, the mother and brother of the young man killed in 88 were interviewed concerning the possiblity of Brickman being more involved in the death than just driver.  My understanding is that the mother once again covered up her suspicions or involvement.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on April 17, 2010, 02:13:13 PM
It is my understanding, that Brickman's plea came as quite the surprise as it has been delayed and delayed by legal game playing for quite some time.  He was initially charged with first degree murder in the Death of Sarah Martin. And in the end he's only convicted of second degree murder.  I wonder how that happened??  Below is a partial copy as posted in the local media:

"The man charged with knifing a Quinte West woman to death was sentenced to life in prison in a Belleville Superior Court Thursday.

Justice Richard Byers also increased Robert Brickman's parole eligibility date from 10 to 14 years. Brickman, 42, plead guilty to second-degree murder in the 2007 slaying of Sarah Martin, of Trenton. The plea saved the Crown and courts from what had been expected to be a lengthy trial.  Byers called the plea a "compromise" before adding that Brickman's decision to plead guilty before trial was a "wise one."

"You are sentenced to imprisonment in the penitentiary for life," Byers said.

Brickman's charge was reduced from first-to second-degree murder for the slaying of 22-year-old Martin."

amIam,
I think what may have happened is that there may have been more charges and the guilty plea was a deal.  Now, did he plea guilty of first degree murder?

I still feel that he killed the at least one person in the car in 1988.  All the signs pointed to foul play but an accident took precident and the one victim's mother was (I believe) having an affair with Brickman when her child was killed.  I will never be convinced the mother did not know something before the two people were killed.  What I do know is that when Brickman was taken was charged for the death he ahs just plead guilty for, the mother and brother of the young man killed in 88 were interviewed concerning the possiblity of Brickman being more involved in the death than just driver.  My understanding is that the mother once again covered up her suspicions or involvement.

I can't believe the mother of this young woman who died in the car accident in 1988, would cover up the death of her own child for this piece of scum! :-\

Who did post mortems on the bodies of these 2 young people...cripe!  Ah, right, this was Trenton prior to the OPP.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Another Trentonian on April 17, 2010, 03:46:59 PM
I have heard that accused like to have the trial delayed and delayed as the time served prior to trial counts as double (or more) towards your sentencing.  So the longer the trial is put off, the more time you can attribute to your sentence.  So there is a method in delaying trial and sentencing on their part.

It is costly to proceed to a lengthy trial.  They probably plea bargained with him to reduce the charge to 2nd degree, which would still carry a life sentence but a less time served before applying for parole.  However, they didn't allow the time to be reduced to what it would normally be on a 2nd degree murder sentence.  Also, now the evidence will never come out, I would assume.  You could be right that there are things he doesn't want brought out.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on April 17, 2010, 04:27:57 PM
I was very surprised at his guilty plea, I doubt he was concerned regarding the public coffers for after all, his lawyer is legal aid regardless of how high profile he is.  Brickman's cell at the Quinte Detention Centre was right beside Williams. I wonder if part of this plea package had something to do with this?
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Another Trentonian on April 17, 2010, 05:45:00 PM
You are right.  I didn't mean that would be an issue for Mr. Brickman.   I doubt he is concerned at all with how much a trial would cost.  But the Crown would probably prefer to save the taxpayer money and put him away without the expense of a trial.  The evidence must have been strong enough that his lawyer would advise him to bargain to try and come out of the process with as little time as possible and that would be the best he could do. 

How would the fact that Williams was housed in a cell next to Brickman have anything to do with him making a plea bargain? 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on April 18, 2010, 06:50:02 AM
How would the fact that Williams was housed in a cell next to Brickman have anything to do with him making a plea bargain? 

To me, given that Brickman has delayed and delayed for so very long, it came at a great surprise ( not just to me) that he seemed to make a back room deal and plead guilty.  He was housed in the cell next to Williams.  Perhaps Brickman had something to offer the Crown's case against Williams..something he heard perhaps...???   
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: aura1 on April 18, 2010, 06:14:30 PM
Brickman has had a way of getting out of deep water in the past.  How?  He could be an informant...?
When he kill the two young adults in 1988, he got 3 weeks or so incarceration and no/little driver's license suspension.
How does this happen?  Another deal.
Maybe once in prison, he'll kind his way to a good beating to death by some of the men he has (if he has) squealed on in the past.
 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Concerned on April 18, 2010, 08:33:31 PM
Just curious, why does time served prior to trial count as double (or more) towards a person's sentencing? Why is this accepted practices? Sounds like something should be changed. It appears the only thing it does is stahl justice. Stahling justice can work against prosecution, and that doesn't serve the public well.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: aura1 on April 18, 2010, 09:09:11 PM
It is just how it works...I am not sure if it is provincial or federal...each time a family member of mine has gone to prison, it seemed that he used the rule to his benefit too.  Seems wrong to me.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on April 19, 2010, 02:16:38 PM
Concerned, you speak about the time served being counted in as double when the sentence is handed down. There were discussions in government about changing this and I believe that it is going to be changed, however I have not heard anything further on that. The government has talked about changing this, because of complaints relating to sentences not being served for the length of time that was given. I definitely think that the final sentence handed down should be served, right up to the last minute.??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on April 19, 2010, 02:37:06 PM
I just read on the news in the Intelligencer that Brickman was give a Life Sentence for the murder of Sarah Martin. I looked for a thread here for Sarah, but did not find any.  :( :( :( :(
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on April 19, 2010, 03:23:40 PM
 Hi Cape, no, there was no thread for Sarah.  Perhaps I should have made one but by the time I became a member, her killer had been found.

The previous last few posts are regarding, her killer, Robert Brickman.  And that perhaps he was responsible for Kathleen's murder, personally, I don't think so.

Eight months after Sarah's murder, Brickman was arrested and charged with first degree murder.  He had been housed in the Quinte Detention Center, in Napanee, for quite some time, with various court appearances and various clever stays executed by his very clever lawyer.

It came as a total surprise that he pleaded guilty last week to second degree murder and I am baffled as to why???  Yes, it was ordered by the judge he serve life in prison..but it won't be that..he'll be out in just a few years.

A curious thing about the last minute plea bargain, Brickman was housed in the cell beside Williams.  I am wondering if there was a back room deal. Perhaps he had something to offer the Crown against Williams.  Just my thoughts... 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Concerned on April 19, 2010, 09:48:27 PM
I agree with you Cape, the sentences alone are little compared to the injustice done. To think they are shortened for time waiting for trial by at least 200 percent, and in that time evidence lost or people not able to testify, much less the get out early card. For what? So they can go out into society, without anyone knowing where they chose to live, but be sitting ducks for their next attack. Especially, when the serious offenders if diagnosed as psychopaths are deemed not treatable and likely to continue to commit further? Then, where is the right of the public? They talk about the cost to jail an individual, but at what cost and at what price are we losing loved ones, investigating the missing, and continually courting the criminal? Too high of price, if you ask me. Not only that, but where is the deterant? What kind of neighborhoods are we building? What are we becoming if we don't protect our citizens properly.

I will have to look for the stats again, but I once pulled the crime stats and was totally beyond myself. The number of crimes, versus the number of criminals arrested, versus the number of criminals sentenced, versus the number of years served. It was, rather appalling. If I were a criminal I would think it would be the perfect setting for crime.

I think Canada deserves better. Once the spiral is downward, it is hard to get it back. Look at Mexico. It's gone.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on April 20, 2010, 01:12:14 PM
Well, I think they had the goods on Brickman and I think they just wanted to avoid a big trial. The lawyer and the prosecutor possibly got together and came up with this deal. Then when the lawyer pointed out to Brickman all of the evidence against him and that he was going down, he probably advised him to plead guilty to SDM. I don't think he would even be close to Williams when he was incarcerated. Williams is likely in an isolated section away from anyone that he can contact. So Brickman would not be a suspect in Kathleen's murder, so we're back to square one. ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on April 20, 2010, 05:28:41 PM
Cape, Brickman was behind bars for a long time, his high profile lawyer ( legal aid) has had all the " discovery" from the Crown for months and months but kept dragging the actual trial date out.

In one of the posts on the Williams Timeline there is a posted link regarding Quinte West Detention Center in Napanee.  I think it was the one from when he tried to commit suicide.  In that article it is mentioned Williams is housed in a high security area with 3 cells.  Brickman is in one and in the other is Dean Brown who shot three people, killing a mother, daughter and wounded his ex girlfriend.  I believe the article states something to the effect " on either side of Williams" etc, etc.

So no, Williams is not in isolation. And Brickman was there.

 

Well, I think they had the goods on Brickman and I think they just wanted to avoid a big trial. The lawyer and the prosecutor possibly got together and came up with this deal. Then when the lawyer pointed out to Brickman all of the evidence against him and that he was going down, he probably advised him to plead guilty to SDM. I don't think he would even be close to Williams when he was incarcerated. Williams is likely in an isolated section away from anyone that he can contact. So Brickman would not be a suspect in Kathleen's murder, so we're back to square one. ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on April 20, 2010, 07:48:09 PM
What should we call them, the three blind rats, they sure aren't mice. I think Williams is the clever type, he is not going to spill anything at this stage of the game. Maybe the murder of Sarah was not premeditated and that is why he agreed to plead to SDM. FDM is premeditated. He may know something, but I doubt it. I don't think Williams was in there long enough to give any info to him, it would surprise me if he did. I truly hope that something does come out of this investigation to point the finger at who killed Kathleen. ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: aura1 on April 20, 2010, 08:33:14 PM
Brickman is greasy.  Very little seems to stick.
I can almost guarantee that he is a snitch.
Have any of you spent much time with Brickman?
If you were, you might be on guard for you never know where your info would be going.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Concerned on April 20, 2010, 10:24:22 PM
Did I read that right, Brinkman and Williams may be considered for the same crime? Why would they put Brinkman in a cell next to Williams if they may be connected to the same crime. Sounds like a recipe for disaster and the ability to come up with stories to create enough reasonable doubt. Doesn't sound like a good plan to me.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: aura1 on April 21, 2010, 04:45:08 AM
The detention centre is no that big.
Remember, the general though used to be that the area was safe.  There would be few chances that 3 murderers or more would be in that detention centre all at once.
The question is, why was Brickman in an area that sounds like protective custody if he wasn't a danger to himself or if he wasn't going to be in danger in the regular population?
The other thing is, is Brickman going to spend his next few years in a provincial or federal pen?  My brother always tried to get into a federal pen.  It was far too violent in other places.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Concerned on April 21, 2010, 06:46:01 AM
Lets just hope that he isn't conveniently placed in an area to obtain information which will allow him more leniency in his future sentencing. I would rather we obtain the information from good police work than setting individuals up for reduced sentences.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on April 24, 2010, 05:38:58 PM
I knew I had read this article that stated Williams was in Trenton when Kathleen was murdered but I couldn't find it.  And ya know where I found it? I found it on the Williams Timeline thread. All of Williams postings can be found on his thread and all the names of  women who were murdered ( cases unsolved) in every place he has ever been posted.   

And Kathleen's was one...

This article is courtesy of dilligent our member SAP. I only copied and pasted. Thank you SAP!

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/cars/Sidebar+Cold+Cases/2547411/story.html

Williams posted to Ottawa and CFB Trenton around the time that Kathleen MacVicar, 19, was slain at Trenton in 2001.


- Kathleen MacVicar, 19.


Kathleen MacVicar was seen for the last time leaving on foot from a friend's residence. Two days later, on June 15, 2001, her body was discovered on Canadian Forces Base Trenton in Ontario. MacVicar had been raped and stabbed.

Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on May 09, 2010, 01:55:40 PM
I just checked the count of how many times people have viewed Kathleen's site.  Including mine, the tally is 9695 people.  Come June 13, 2010, Kathleen will have been dead ( stabbed) to death 9 years ago.  On an average this site has been viewed more than 9 times a year.

Trenton is not a very large town, Kathleen, who was the neice of a male member of CFB Trenton who (has since been posted  elsewhere) , was found stabbed to death, her remains sexually violated, ( ??) and her body relocated to the edge of Middleton Park.  The primary scene of her murder has never been ascertained.

So given that this beautiful young 19 yr old lady, from Glace Bay NS was brutally murdered here in Trenton and no one has been arrested as to date; and given that this site has been visited more than 1000 times a year, how can it be that this crime has not been solved??

Personally, I feel that someone out there has some critical piece of information and are afraid to tell the police.

 

Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on May 10, 2010, 09:27:30 AM
Des, thanks, ( I had forgotten!) so viewed 3000 times a year and still no closure.   
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Concerned on May 14, 2010, 05:02:12 PM
A testament that Kathleen MacVicar, matters. People care. And, her family needs some closure.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on May 14, 2010, 05:05:22 PM
This is an article I stumbled upon, a few comments from Kathleen's mother, so sad.
-------------------------------------------------------

GLACE BAY - Colleen MacVicar has favourite memories of her daughter Kathleen, who was viciously murdered nearly nine years ago.
"She had tiny little hands and would put them on my shoulders," she recalled Tuesday.
"I remember the feel of that."
MacVicar said although the arrest of Col. Russell Williams, the base commander at CFB Trenton for two murders and two home invasions in the same area, does bring some hope for possible closure, the family is not getting their hopes up too high.
Williams has been charged in the murders of Jessica Lloyd, who went missing on Jan. 28 and whose body was found Monday, and the murder of Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, 38, who was killed in her home Nov. 25, as well as two counts of forcible confinement, break and enter, and sexual assault in relation to two home invasions in September.
In June 2001 Kathleen MacVicar, 19, was visiting her aunt and uncle at CFB Trenton, when she went missing. Three days later her body was found in a wooded section of the base. She had been stabbed multiple times and sexually assaulted. The case has never been solved.
"I have been here before, thinking we have resolved this in that respect, found the person we were looking for - someone to blame - but it has always fallen through," her mother said.
"Until the police tell me that without a shadow of a doubt that this is who they suspect killed Kathleen, then I am just going to wait and see. I am not getting my hopes up here."
Members of the Ontario Provincial Police contacted the MacVicar family Monday evening.
"The police told us they will be looking into it. They certainly haven't offered us any great hope, we are just waiting to see what is going on, to see if they can give us any information on whether he was even in Trenton at the time - they don't even know that yet.
"They just want us to be kept up in the loop."
MacVicar said it wasn't a heavily wooded area where her daughter was found, more like a thoroughfare.
"There was a street the school bus used and kids would be walking back and forth.
"She was probably 50 feet off the road, right where the grass ended and the woods would start. The guy who cuts the grass was actually the person who discovered her."
Every year, MacVicar travels to the area where her daughter's body was found.
"I go every year at the time she was missing. She went missing on the 13th and was found on the 15th. It is my personal thing, she was alone during that time so I want to be there," she said.
"It doesn't make much sense, but it makes sense to me as her mother."
MacVicar said she has a great relationship with the OPP, however the military has not been co-operative.
"They have been very unforthcoming and closed-mouthed. It makes you very suspicious."
Sgt. Kristine Rae, media relations for the OPP for the eastern region, said the MacVicar homicide has always been an open investigation.
"There has always been investigators assigned to the case. There is still a $50,000 reward posted on our website for information pertaining to that"
Rae said the investigation on Williams is currently focused on the four cases before the court - two homicides and two home invasions.
"Through that investigation we will be looking at other unsolved crimes and reviewing them to see if there are any similarities between those incidents and these ones. The MacVicar homicide hasn't been reviewed yet, but it definitely will be to see if there are any similarities."
She confirmed the cases are all in the same "geographical area."
2nd Lt. Vincent Bedard of CFB Trenton confirmed the Canadian Armed Forces is assisting with the OPP investigation.
When asked if the MacVicar murder was being looked at as part of the Williams case, he said information about all postings in Williams' career is being researched right now.
"That information will be released soon for investigation purposes."
Desiree Vassallo, spokesperson with the Cape Breton Regional Police Service, said at this point they have not received any contact from the OPP regarding the murder of MacVicar.
After MacVicar's death they only played a minimal role, she added.
"We liasoned between the OPP and the family, we helped them in meeting the family locally."
After the murder there was an outpouring of support from the community. Staff at the McKeen Street Tim Hortons outlet in Glace Bay where MacVicar had worked planted an oak tree and laid a plaque in her memory at Two Rivers Wildlife Park.

smontgomery@cbpost.com
http://www.capebretonpost.com/News/Justice/2010-02-10/article-837066/Police-looking-into-MacVicar-murder-for-links-to-arrested-base-commander/1

Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Concerned on May 14, 2010, 05:22:41 PM
Colleen sounds like a lovely person, even through grief, and a beautifully caring mother. I'm glad the OPP are keeping in touch with her. Even if RW is ruled out, that team that caught RW may have the skills and the ability to find some closure. That is more hope than this case has seen in a while. I wish them well. .... More energy drinks to the OPP, keep that tenacity going!
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on May 14, 2010, 06:23:45 PM
Concerned, I can't begin to imagine the pain and grief Colleen has felt over the years. And still no answers.  Let us hope with the revelation that RW was Trenton during the time of Kathleen's murder, this case will be resolved. 

"MacVicar said she has a great relationship with the OPP, however the military has not been co-operative."

I find it difficult to understand why the military have not been cooperative with Colleen MacVicar...I wonder to what degree? One would think, given this sweet girl was actually staying at the base with her Uncle ( and Aunt) who is a military person and her remains were found on military property, the military would be bending over backwards to help. Not be uncooperative.  :-\
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Concerned on May 14, 2010, 07:41:57 PM
Wonder if the military was uncooperative during RW reign, and if the tides have turned?
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on May 14, 2010, 09:18:03 PM
It always make you think, well maybe because this female was from another part of the country that we don't have to work to hard to solve the crime. Well, we are here and we want Kathleen's murder solved. If her family was in Ontario, maybe there would be more action on Kathleen's murder. So much time gone by and nothing, it is very upsetting for us down east. Please go back and interview the people that were initially interviewed when Kathleen was murdered. Let us get justice for Kathleen. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on May 15, 2010, 06:31:05 AM
It always make you think, well maybe because this female was from another part of the country that we don't have to work to hard to solve the crime. Well, we are here and we want Kathleen's murder solved. If her family was in Ontario, maybe there would be more action on Kathleen's murder. So much time gone by and nothing, it is very upsetting for us down east. Please go back and interview the people that were initially interviewed when Kathleen was murdered. Let us get justice for Kathleen. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

Cape, I think it does make a difference when the family actually lives closer to the area of a crime.  One can be more of an in your face person.  I have mentioned before that the former Trenton Police force really botched the initial investigation. Someone in their wisdom brought in the OPP Forensics team..but that was 2 wks or more after Kathleen's murder.  I believe they did round up the usual suspects but to no avail.

There have been a few military posters here who have said the military were very cooperative with the investigation.  I believed that until I read Colleen MacVicars statement to the contrary. How dreadful the military isn't cooperating with the investigation. Kathleen was an extended family member of one of thier own 'military family' why would they not cooperate??

"MacVicar said she has a great relationship with the OPP, however the military has not been co-operative."
http://www.capebretonpost.com/News/Justice/2010-02-10/article-837066/Police-looking-into-MacVicar-murder-for-links-to-arrested-base-commander/1

Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: jobo on May 15, 2010, 07:57:08 AM
So, the Military has not co-operated in Kathleen's murder investigation.  That is not good enough.  I would hope that because Williams has been charged, the Military would realize it is quite possible they have (had) another killer of innocent women in their midst, and they are actively working on Kathleen's case again.  Let's hope, her family needs answers.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on May 15, 2010, 03:31:53 PM
So, the Military has not co-operated in Kathleen's murder investigation.  That is not good enough.  I would hope that because Williams has been charged, the Military would realize it is quite possible they have (had) another killer of innocent women in their midst, and they are actively working on Kathleen's case again.  Let's hope, her family needs answers.

I am as surprised as you the military has not cooperated with the MacVicar family.  We were told in the media they were and military posters here have said the same.
I was shocked ( to say the least) when I read Kathleen's mother's statement. This poor mother has been through so much for the past 9 years.

I'm wondering if by chance, Kathleen MacVicar's came up during that interview the base gave to Maclean's magazine?

http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/02/19/%e2%80%98behind-those-eyes%e2%80%99/#more-108675

I would doubt Macleans was even aware a murder had occured 9 yrs previously and on military property, no less.  Her murder didn't get much media coverage at the time...
I can't imagine one of those military guys would pipe-up and say; " Oh yeah, and why we are all wondering how RW managed to pull off his crimes..there was another murder right here an the base 9 yrs ago.  And RW was here..his bio says he wasn't..officially he was posted to Ottawa but he split his time between 2 bases. And he even rented a place right here on the base in June, 2001."
I guess they would be unable to mention that considering the military isn't cooperating with Mrs. MacVicar.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on May 23, 2010, 01:46:24 PM
There is a Facebook page for Kathleen, set up ( I believe by a member here)  There was some interest at first, just the usual join any group condolances....there has been the odd member from as far away as  Baton Rouge, and Aussie..you get my drift?

One would think with the 222-Tips line someone locally would have called in something?  Regardless of how insignificant it may seem.   The 222-TIPS is supposed to be a ID free however many locals don't trust it.

Kathleen MacVicar's mother, Colleen's statement regarding the lack of military cooperation in the murder of her daughter, whose remains were found on military property, really bothers me. Yes...the area had been recently opened to the public ( how convenient?) but it's not as if this area is distant from the base, it's just 50 feet away.  Being deemed public means, the the military police can't arrest a civilian if they are found on the property.  Trenton has many greenbelts and parks..why choose this area to dump Kathleen's body?

Middleton Park is a PMQ area, ( private married quarters) on June 15, 2001 when Kathleen's body was discovered. RW was posted here, he rented a place on base as he was splitting his time between Ottawa and Trenton.  The PMQ he rented has changed hands a number of times since 2001.

So has RW's profile, a former military poster here was adamant Williams was not in Trenton during the time of Kathleen's murder..his military profile said so. ( ?!?!) Low and behold it did say that but Toronto Globe and Mail proved differently.

So given the military lied regarding Williams posting during the time of Kathleen's murder, and their lack of cooperation to date as expressed by her mother, Colleen..what should we do as concerned Canadian citizens?

How does one go about arranging a petition to force and expose the truth regarding what the military were aware?








   
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on May 23, 2010, 03:20:16 PM
amIam; there are 18 pages of info. in this thread - there are at least 3 threads on RW.  Most of us are trying to follow and contribute insight to many cases on a regular basis so that they are "not forgotten".  It would help if you could elaborate
 by joining or linking the clarifying info on three points - I'm sorry but I'm after forgetting the particulars on these points. ....so in short:

Quote
Yes...the area had been recently opened to the public ( how convenient?)
1a.) Exactly when did this area open up to the public? - Before or after Kathleen's body was found there? 
1 b.) Do you have any idea who/what official/s would be responsible for seeing that this area became public as opposed to private military grounds?

Quote
a former military poster here was adamant Williams was not in Trenton during the time of Kathleen's murder..his military profile said so. ( ?!?!) Low and behold it did say that but Toronto Globe and Mail proved differently.
2.  I seem to remember this article, but can't remember where or when I read it.
Can you put in that link?

Quote
How does one go about arranging a petition to force and expose the truth regarding what the military were aware?
3.  Good idea!... maybe Kathleen has a close friend or family member (or even anyone here) who could draft up a letter showing this proof of all of the above.  ....create a thread to that effect...then we could all click on that thread and leave our signature....then it could be printed out and sent to the investigating officer in charge of that case with CC. going wherever else necessary -  even to newspapers....like the Globe.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on May 24, 2010, 03:23:09 PM
Lost, good idea but a daunting task. And I know you guys are busy with other cases and this thread is difficult to follow.  So is the information regarding Kathleen's murder. I'm working on it.




amIam; there are 18 pages of info. in this thread - there are at least 3 threads on RW.  Most of us are trying to follow and contribute insight to many cases on a regular basis so that they are "not forgotten".  It would help if you could elaborate
 by joining or linking the clarifying info on three points - I'm sorry but I'm after forgetting the particulars on these points. ....so in short:

Quote
Yes...the area had been recently opened to the public ( how convenient?)
1a.) Exactly when did this area open up to the public? - Before or after Kathleen's body was found there? 
1 b.) Do you have any idea who/what official/s would be responsible for seeing that this area became public as opposed to private military grounds?

Quote
a former military poster here was adamant Williams was not in Trenton during the time of Kathleen's murder..his military profile said so. ( ?!?!) Low and behold it did say that but Toronto Globe and Mail proved differently.
2.  I seem to remember this article, but can't remember where or when I read it.
Can you put in that link?

Quote
How does one go about arranging a petition to force and expose the truth regarding what the military were aware?
3.  Good idea!... maybe Kathleen has a close friend or family member (or even anyone here) who could draft up a letter showing this proof of all of the above.  ....create a thread to that effect...then we could all click on that thread and leave our signature....then it could be printed out and sent to the investigating officer in charge of that case with CC. going wherever else necessary -  even to newspapers....like the Globe.

Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on May 25, 2010, 04:32:26 PM
Lost, as per part of your request I Googled Middleton Pk. Trenton, ON..it's not listed.  I Googled Middleton Pk, CFB Trenton..it's not listed. Geez this place has an actual name and it's unknown to Google??  The best I could come up with is Curtis Rd. This is where Kathleen's uncle, the military guy was staying, she was living with both he and her aunt at the time of her murder.  They call this area the PMQ's ( Private Married Quarters) Kathleen's uncle, Bob has since been posted elsewhere.

If I am correct, Kathleen's remains were discovered according to her mother, 50ft away from one of the PMQ's.

At the time of her murder, Middleton Pk ( that no one seems to own) was open access to the public, although not many people civilians were aware. 


http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Curtis+Rd.,+CFB+Trenton,+Ontario&sll=44.118889,-77.528053&sspn=0.018362,0.035791&g=CFB+Trenton,+Quinte+West,+Ontario&ie=UTF8&hq=Curtis+Rd.,&hnear=Canadian+Forces+Base+Trenton,+Quinte+West,+ON+K8V+5P8&ll=44.111192,-77.556009&spn=0.018364,0.035791&z=14
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on May 25, 2010, 04:43:10 PM
Am..... it's probably a street....like a crescent...or whatever.  I will start digging.

If you look at this ad... you'll see that it is a yard sale in Middleton Park.... that's apparently the area on the base.... I'll keep digging for it.

Curtis Road and RCAF RD. are on it's perimeter I think.
http://belleville.kijiji.ca/c-community-garage-sales-MIDDLETON-PARK-ANNUAL-YARD-SALE-SEE-17-JOHNSON-DRIVE-W0QQAdIdZ207090881

there's a map in the Kijiji ad.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on May 25, 2010, 05:13:57 PM
Lost, I am gonna leave the mapping search to you! perhaps there's something amiss with Google maps from my end as I tried to track Cresswell Dr. Trenton ( where Kathleen had been) to Curtis Rd.  No luck there either.

So there was a yard sale on Curtis Rd., huh?  It's that time, military people have been reposted and are moving.  They are usually gone by the end of June.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: art-hu on May 26, 2010, 08:21:28 AM
I'm fairly new and don't know where to put this. I recall in the newspaper "The Intelligencer" on 23/04/2010 about a soldier found dead at base. Does anyone know anything more about this. This happened shortly after Debra Raschotte was found.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on May 26, 2010, 12:03:57 PM
am; I did notice one thing about google maps.
If you put in a street or area that is well known by the community, but not listed on Maps, then you get a response it couldn't be found.  However, if you go to a known street in same area, which is on the map, then when you zoom in, you can find others.
I followed the directions of another poster way back.  I googled Highway 2 and zoomed in to the area.  I took the little man, (me) and got down and walked the streets.  I walked Curtis until I found Zellers, then I zoomed back out and went down to Highway 2 and zoomed in again.  I walked highway 2 until I came to the clump of trees near the PMQ.  I hoped I'd see the cross.  I suppose google (being behind time-wise, might not have been in the right time frame.  Also, the cross might be among the trees and I can't walk in because the satellite doesn't follow.
a poster way back gave directions that state she was found in the clump of trees just off Highway 2 next to the PMQ .....that he a others erected a cross there, and he sees it every day he passes.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on May 26, 2010, 12:34:45 PM
I keep being drawn back to this post from page 3 of this thread.  No matter what else I read, I keep getting drawn back to this post..... as if my gut tells me Kathleen was picked up by someone from the base she felt she was safe with.... that they took her to a place they had access to....then dumped her where she was found.  I think the ball was dropped by authorities not using a police dog right when she was found.  They should have searched every PMQ and building there, looking for traces of Kathleen's blood...or hair etc.  I would also love to be one of the investigators with access to every Credit Card Transaction RW made at that time (there were motels and lodges close by) and every key he was in the possession of..... oh, that's right.... he didn't need a key!

If I were her parents, I would definitely be fighting for all the evidence the "real police" do have.  I would be looking for trace of bindings, blindfold, etc.  This country is in serious need of CSI people and equipment.... and real police.
The area she was found is a small treed field directly behind the back yard area of these PMQs - an area where there are many paths that have been well used over the years and lead to the Zellers Mall off highway 2.  The night of June 20, 2001 was quite warm and a lot of us locals have always wondered how it was that no one heard or saw anything going on.  We figure some of the residents of the PMQs must have had their bedroom windows open that night so surely someone must have witnessed something if she was attacked there?



I have lived here in Trenton (also known now as Quinte West as of Jan 1, 1998) for over 30 years.  I drive by the spot on the Base (just off Curtis Road) where Kathleen was found and I often think of her and wish that progress was being made in finding her killer.  For those of you who were wondering earlier, Curtis Road is a straight stretch of road that runs east/west through the PMQs (married quarters) area of the Base - it starts where Dixon Drive ends - right on the boundry of the Base - and ends at RCAF road.  It is maybe 2km long.  It is not a dark, lonely stretch of road and is very well travelled with a 2 parks and 2 schools right off it.  The area she was found is a small treed field directly behind the back yard area of these PMQs - an area where there are many paths that have been well used over the years and lead to the Zellers Mall off highway 2.  The night of June 20, 2001 was quite warm and a lot of us locals have always wondered how it was that no one heard or saw anything going on.  We figure some of the residents of the PMQs must have had their bedroom windows open that night so surely someone must have witnessed something if she was attacked there?  The Quinte West PD and later the OPP have always refused to provide ANY info as to what exactly happened - COD, whether or not she was sexually assaulted, where she was attacked, etc which has lead to a lot of fear over the years as to what exactly happened.  Most of us feel that the OPP have failed big time in this investigation and the killer has gotten away with it.  The local media brings it up every once in a while especially on the anniversary of it happening and all we ever get is that it is still being investigated.  The only thing we know is that she was visiting friends on the other side of town and they were able to catch her image on store security cameras in the downtown presumably walking back to the Base.  Most locals feel she was probably attacked off the Base and then placed where she was found later.  Most locals also feel she was picked up and attacked by someone she knew and trusted and maybe worked with?  I hope this does get solved one day soon to give her and her family and friends some peace.  We try to keep her memory alive here and there is a cross on the spot where she was found and people often leave her flowers.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on May 26, 2010, 03:00:55 PM
Lost, I appreciate your interest and fact finding.  The poster you have quoted is off by 5 days on the time of Kathleen's murder..it was not June 20, 2001.  Kathleen never made it back from the gathering at Curtis Rd, June 13th.  Her remains were found on base on June 15th.  So much for the poster regarding warm night open windows, someone should have heard something...

But this is the norm for here in Trenton, most locals never seem to get anything straight.  And when they tend to post, it's a one time thing that one tends to view with a whatever kind of attitute..kinda like the facebook posts.

RW had no need for motels, he had a place on base in the very PMQ area that Kathleen was murdered. But that info did not appear on his bio however after being arrested and charged with the murders of MC and JL the media mentioned 3 of his homes were being investigated.  We only know of two, the third is on base, a rented PMQ.


I keep being drawn back to this post from page 3 of this thread.  No matter what else I read, I keep getting drawn back to this post..... as if my gut tells me Kathleen was picked up by someone from the base she felt she was safe with.... that they took her to a place they had access to....then dumped her where she was found.  I think the ball was dropped by authorities not using a police dog right when she was found.  They should have searched every PMQ and building there, looking for traces of Kathleen's blood...or hair etc.  I would also love to be one of the investigators with access to every Credit Card Transaction RW made at that time (there were motels and lodges close by) and every key he was in the possession of..... oh, that's right.... he didn't need a key!

If I were her parents, I would definitely be fighting for all the evidence the "real police" do have.  I would be looking for trace of bindings, blindfold, etc.  This country is in serious need of CSI people and equipment.... and real police.
The area she was found is a small treed field directly behind the back yard area of these PMQs - an area where there are many paths that have been well used over the years and lead to the Zellers Mall off highway 2.  The night of June 20, 2001 was quite warm and a lot of us locals have always wondered how it was that no one heard or saw anything going on.  We figure some of the residents of the PMQs must have had their bedroom windows open that night so surely someone must have witnessed something if she was attacked there?



I have lived here in Trenton (also known now as Quinte West as of Jan 1, 1998) for over 30 years.  I drive by the spot on the Base (just off Curtis Road) where Kathleen was found and I often think of her and wish that progress was being made in finding her killer.  For those of you who were wondering earlier, Curtis Road is a straight stretch of road that runs east/west through the PMQs (married quarters) area of the Base - it starts where Dixon Drive ends - right on the boundry of the Base - and ends at RCAF road.  It is maybe 2km long.  It is not a dark, lonely stretch of road and is very well travelled with a 2 parks and 2 schools right off it.  The area she was found is a small treed field directly behind the back yard area of these PMQs - an area where there are many paths that have been well used over the years and lead to the Zellers Mall off highway 2.  The night of June 20, 2001 was quite warm and a lot of us locals have always wondered how it was that no one heard or saw anything going on.  We figure some of the residents of the PMQs must have had their bedroom windows open that night so surely someone must have witnessed something if she was attacked there?  The Quinte West PD and later the OPP have always refused to provide ANY info as to what exactly happened - COD, whether or not she was sexually assaulted, where she was attacked, etc which has lead to a lot of fear over the years as to what exactly happened.  Most of us feel that the OPP have failed big time in this investigation and the killer has gotten away with it.  The local media brings it up every once in a while especially on the anniversary of it happening and all we ever get is that it is still being investigated.  The only thing we know is that she was visiting friends on the other side of town and they were able to catch her image on store security cameras in the downtown presumably walking back to the Base.  Most locals feel she was probably attacked off the Base and then placed where she was found later.  Most locals also feel she was picked up and attacked by someone she knew and trusted and maybe worked with?  I hope this does get solved one day soon to give her and her family and friends some peace.  We try to keep her memory alive here and there is a cross on the spot where she was found and people often leave her flowers.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on May 26, 2010, 03:41:03 PM
amIam; I didn't even give the date a second thought!  I'm glad you pointed that out.  But I still agree, people would have heard something, had the incident taken place where Kathleen was found.  I don't think it did.  I wonder what amount of blood was there - etc.?
And you're right, RW wouldn't need the use of a motel, but since Kathleen didn't have her own place, she could have told him that.... (whoever picked her up, if that was the case).  Wherever it happened, he blood trace would still probably be there.  Blood is hard to get rid of, unless the killer javexed the whole area and disposed of his clothes.  If that's the case, that would take a lot of time and effort - indicating the killer would have further access to the spot long enough to clean it thoroughly.

All good points you mention!
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on May 26, 2010, 05:46:22 PM
Lost, I know nothing of the amount of blood that was found at the scene.  The police alluded months after Kathleen's murder, her body had been moved.  They didn't say the dump site was the primary murder location or that it was secondary.  Just that the body had been moved..could have ten ft, 20, etc.  The report was very vague.  As has been most everything with Kathleen's murder.

Nothing really was reported in the media. The local paper, carried little, but that does no surprise me as things are stifled here.  I few weeks back, I tried to access media archives at the local library.  I was assured by the librarian, the library had all records on microfilm from the Trentonians inception, back in the 1800.  Oddly enough, those from the timeframe of Kathleen's murder are missing.  She couldn't explain and is still searching.

It killed me to read  Kathleen's mother, Colleen MacVicar has met with opposition from the military.

To my way of thinking, a petition by the public to open the doors to military forth coming should not be warranted.

How dare the DND oppose the mother of a victim found murdered on one of their bases?  How dare they not cooperate with the OPP?  Kathleen was one of their own, she was the niece of a military person and his wife who lived at the base. How dare they not cooperate and tell Mrs. MacVicar all they know.

So much is made here in Trenton regarding the tightness of military families. One seems to equate it as a brotherhood..a 911 FD, police dept thing. 

But brotherhood in these fields is self serving, if one has no morals  and is motivated to advancement, keep ones mouth shut and you will advance in your position.



amIam; I didn't even give the date a second thought!  I'm glad you pointed that out.  But I still agree, people would have heard something, had the incident taken place where Kathleen was found.  I don't think it did.  I wonder what amount of blood was there - etc.?
And you're right, RW wouldn't need the use of a motel, but since Kathleen didn't have her own place, she could have told him that.... (whoever picked her up, if that was the case).  Wherever it happened, he blood trace would still probably be there.  Blood is hard to get rid of, unless the killer javexed the whole area and disposed of his clothes.  If that's the case, that would take a lot of time and effort - indicating the killer would have further access to the spot long enough to clean it thoroughly.

All good points you mention!
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on May 27, 2010, 04:23:21 PM
This an old article.  Very similar to one I found recenty.  However this one has added words from Kathleen's mother.

Police looking into MacVicar murder for links to arrested base commander:


In June 2001 Kathleen MacVicar, 19, was visiting her aunt and uncle at CFB Trenton, when she went missing. Three days later her body was found in a wooded section of the base. She had been stabbed multiple times and sexually assaulted. The case has never been solved.

“I have been here before, thinking we have resolved this in that respect, found the person we were looking for — someone to blame — but it has always fallen through,” her mother said.

“Until the police tell me that without a shadow of a doubt that this is who they suspect killed Kathleen, then I am just going to wait and see. I am not getting my hopes up here.”

Members of the Ontario Provincial Police contacted the MacVicar family Monday evening.
“The police told us they will be looking into it. They certainly haven’t offered us any great hope, we are just waiting to see what is going on, to see if they can give us any information on whether he was even in Trenton at the time — they don’t even know that yet.

“They just want us to be kept up in the loop.”

MacVicar said it wasn’t a heavily wooded area where her daughter was found, more like a thoroughfare.

“There was a street the school bus used and kids would be walking back and forth.
“She was probably 50 feet off the road, right the grass ended and the woods would start. The guy who cuts the grass was actually the person who discovered her.”
Every year, MacVicar travels to the area where her daughter’s body was found.
“I go every year at the time she was missing. She went missing on the 13th and was found on the 15th. It is my personal thing, she was alone during that time so I want to be there,” she said.

“It doesn’t make much sense, but it makes sense to me as her mother.”

MacVicar said she has a great relationship with the OPP, however the military has not been co-operative.

“They have been very unforthcoming and closed-mouthed. It makes you very suspicious.”
http://www.capebretonpost.com/News/J...se-commander/1
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on June 10, 2010, 03:34:06 PM
Kathleen will have been gone 9 yrs, June 13th..this Sunday and still no arrest in her brutal murder.   Her mother Colleen has made a pilgrimage from Glace Bay, NS on each yrs anniversay., so Kathleen won't be alone.

Each year the local newspaper does a little blurb regarding Colleen's visit, it's usually quite nice but however, very sad. 

Perhaps this year, with the media interest in RW, the maniac, more major newspapers will show some interest.  Perhaps prior to media interest the military will be more forthcoming and less suspicious than Colleen has previously stated.

Answers and accountability are long overdue.

Best of luck to you Mrs. MacVicar, you are a very strong lady! 

Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on June 10, 2010, 03:41:20 PM
echo that am! :(
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on June 10, 2010, 05:54:51 PM
Just so you know and any other member here who may have an interest in helping Colleen MacVicar in her quest for truth and justice for Kathleen:  I emailed every major Toronto media outlet today regarding the anniversary of Kathleen's murder and Colleen's yearly vigil.  As well , a copy of the newspaper link and her comment regarding the military's lack of cooperation.


echo that am! :(
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on June 17, 2010, 03:03:45 PM
I had this faint hope that someone in the Toronto media might do a piece on Kathleen..given all the furor regarding RW..but naw.  Now one seems to care, not even CBC. Even the local rag here in Trenton didn't do their usual slanted interview with Kathleen's mother.  But perhaps she didn't come this year. It's a long way to travel from Glace Bay, NS to Trenton, Ont. 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on June 17, 2010, 04:24:43 PM
I agree; and it's "a dream" if anyone thinks the media around Cape Breton could care less about these things.  ....only thing you'll get from media in Cape Breton is "avoidance" if you're not completely "pro the system".
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on July 03, 2010, 02:50:03 PM
Seems even the Canadian media couldn't care one iota regarding Kathleen MacVicar.  Not one newspaper carried anything..even with my prompting of emails. 

Yes, she was a resident of Glace Bay, Nova Scotia and had the unfortunate experience  of coming up to good ole Ontario for work.  Stayed with her Uncle ( a military guy) and her Aunt on base at CFB Trenton.  She almost made it home and back to the safety of the base.  Perhaps she thought she was safe as her remains were found on base..two days after she disappeared.

It's truly amazing the information one can gather from the locals here and the stories they can relate regarding this case..and none of it ever makes it to the papers.  I have lived here for years and know a few military people...they are saying and have said it was a military guy who killed her, and to keep things quiet, he was posted elsewhere.

No wonder the military are " not very cooperative" with Kathleen's mother, Colleen. 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on July 03, 2010, 03:00:47 PM
Why am I not surprised to hear this?  I would guess people are also curious as to whether RW will offer to help with this .... in order for certain favors.  who knows.... the military and police and government are so corrupt and so "thick", people's lives can be worth "nothing" in the blink of an eye.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on July 04, 2010, 02:52:39 PM
Yeah Lost, how well I know about corruption and the worth of a life if careers and advancement within a career are at stake.  From my personal aspect, it's truly amazing how much people will talk when it's off the record.  I resolved my personal aspect to a degree.  I guess this is why Kathleen's murder and the cover up involved bothers me so very much.

This poor child was murdered 9 years ago, in this dinky town where everyone knows everyone and so many non military people as well as military people know what happened and who was responsible.  9 years ago, in this town no one had even heard of RW. 

 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on July 31, 2010, 05:45:35 AM
Police 'still optimistic' nine-year-old murder will be solved
Posted By Ernst Kuglin-Trentonian
Updated 17 hours ago
 

The OPP are now calling the sexual assault and slaying of Kathleen MacVicar an active cold case.

The search for the 19-year-old Cape Breton teenager's killer has been underway for more than nine years.

"Just because it's a cold case doesn't mean we're not working on it and the murderer will never be found," said OPP east region spokeswoman Kristine Rae. "We're still optimistic."


 MacVicar's body was found by a national defence groundskeeper June 15, 2001 near a wooded area just south of Curtis Road in Middleton Park at CFB Trenton.

She had been sexually assaulted and stabbed numerous times.

Details of the investigation are still in short supply. Investigators have never revealed the type of weapon used to kill MacVicar. Neither have they said exactly where the murder took place, although it's believed the killer dumped MacVicar's body just inside a wooded area metres from the road. Police have insisted releasing those details could compromise their investigation.

MacVicar had been staying with an aunt and uncle in the Permanent Married Quarters (PMQs) in Middleton Park and working at Stream in Belleville.

Little is known about the last hours of MacVicar's life.

A happy MacVicar phoned her mother Colleen on June 13, 2001, excited about her pending high school graduation. It was the last time mother and daughter would speak to each other.

Two days later, an officer with the Cape Breton police knocked at the front door of the MacVicar residence with the tragic news.

She was last seen alive June 13, two days before her body was found. MacVicar had left a friend's residence in the Dufferin Street and Creswell Drive area on the southwest side of Trenton at about 10:30 p.m.

Advertisement


It is believed she was walking to Middleton Park.

MacVicar has been described as a friendly, caring individual. People say she was quick to make friends and she trusted those friends.

When the OPP took over the investigation from the former Quinte West Police Service, they labelled it Project Shadow. A team of OPP officers initially included a lead investigator and six other team members.

But in the years since, the team has dwindled to just one case officer, Insp. Chris Nicholas.

Nicholas could not be reached this week for comment on the case.

At various points during the investigation, police said they had persons of interest in their sites. They said several individuals may have been close to suspect status, but were eliminated as suspects after further investigation.

Included in their ranks were several people from out of province. But word spread there was not enough evidence to lay charges.

In previous interviews, police admitted their investigation has led them to MacVicar's home province of Nova Scotia.

A $50,000 reward still exists for information leading to the arrest of MacVicar's killer.

In the preliminary stages of the murder investigation, started by the former Quinte West police service, investigators refused to release a photograph of MacVicar.

That decision led to criticism by the public, media and even city politicians that by not releasing the photograph valuable time was wasted.

There was even speculation by police sources who, at the time didn't want to be identified, that the crime scene may have been contaminated, making the search for the killer even harder.

At one point, investigators tried to link the MacVicar investigation to a similar crime committed in November, 2001 in London, Ont., but there was nothing to confirm or deny both crimes were linked.

At the outset of the investigation the former municipal police service asked for technical support from the OPP's behavioral sciences section, resulting in a profile of the killer being released to the public.

The profile concluded police were searching for a man who may be subject to spontaneous and volatile outbursts of anger, a man who displayed such savagery that he could have been responsible for raping, then killing MacVicar.

The profile stated MacVicar's killer may still be living in the Quinte area and that there was the possibility of the killer striking again.

"He probably likes carrying a weapon,'' said a member OPP's Behavioral Section back in 2001.

Police initially said the killer is a male Caucasian, 22 to 28 years of age — one who probably acted alone. The profile, said investigators, fits an individual who may live within walking distance of the crime scene.

In 2003, however, the profile came into question. In an interview, another case manager questioned why the profile was released to the public, describing it as a contentious issue.

Profiles, said the investigator are more theory than fact and could give the public — whom police were relying upon for information — an inaccurate description, or the wrong impression of the information they were attempting to obtain.

"In this instance it could have prefiltered information ... and when police asked for the public's assistance, the public may have used the profile as an accurate description of the killer,'' said the officer.

Article ID# 2688918
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: jobo on July 31, 2010, 07:25:13 AM
If the profilers think the murderer of Kathleen probably lived within walking distance of where she was found...then perhaps they should get out of the office, and go back to the neighbourhood and re-interview everyone.  Nine years later, someone may talk.  Or go back through their files and see who had a record back then (or since).   The profilers are saying it is a guy in his 20's (at the time) with anger issues.....they even are going as far as saying he could strike again.  They need to take a better look at men who lived in the vicinity, and on the base.  I believe it was a local, with anger issues towards women.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on August 01, 2010, 12:49:54 PM
Police 'still optimistic' nine-year-old murder will be solved
Posted By Ernst Kuglin-Trentonian
Updated 17 hours ago
 

The OPP are now calling the sexual assault and slaying of Kathleen MacVicar an active cold case.

The search for the 19-year-old Cape Breton teenager's killer has been underway for more than nine years.

"Just because it's a cold case doesn't mean we're not working on it and the murderer will never be found," said OPP east region spokeswoman Kristine Rae. "We're still optimistic."


 MacVicar's body was found by a national defence groundskeeper June 15, 2001 near a wooded area just south of Curtis Road in Middleton Park at CFB Trenton.

She had been sexually assaulted and stabbed numerous times.

Details of the investigation are still in short supply. Investigators have never revealed the type of weapon used to kill MacVicar. Neither have they said exactly where the murder took place, although it's believed the killer dumped MacVicar's body just inside a wooded area metres from the road. Police have insisted releasing those details could compromise their investigation.
MacVicar had been staying with an aunt and uncle in the Permanent Married Quarters (PMQs) in Middleton Park and working at Stream in Belleville.

Little is known about the last hours of MacVicar's life.

A happy MacVicar phoned her mother Colleen on June 13, 2001, excited about her pending high school graduation. It was the last time mother and daughter would speak to each other.

Two days later, an officer with the Cape Breton police knocked at the front door of the MacVicar residence with the tragic news.

She was last seen alive June 13, two days before her body was found. MacVicar had left a friend's residence in the Dufferin Street and Creswell Drive area on the southwest side of Trenton at about 10:30 p.m.

Advertisement


It is believed she was walking to Middleton Park.

MacVicar has been described as a friendly, caring individual. People say she was quick to make friends and she trusted those friends.

When the OPP took over the investigation from the former Quinte West Police Service, they labelled it Project Shadow. A team of OPP officers initially included a lead investigator and six other team members.

But in the years since, the team has dwindled to just one case officer, Insp. Chris Nicholas.
Nicholas could not be reached this week for comment on the case.

At various points during the investigation, police said they had persons of interest in their sites. They said several individuals may have been close to suspect status, but were eliminated as suspects after further investigation.

Included in their ranks were several people from out of province. But word spread there was not enough evidence to lay charges. In previous interviews, police admitted their investigation has led them to MacVicar's home province of Nova Scotia.

A $50,000 reward still exists for information leading to the arrest of MacVicar's killer.

In the preliminary stages of the murder investigation, started by the former Quinte West police service, investigators refused to release a photograph of MacVicar.

That decision led to criticism by the public, media and even city politicians that by not releasing the photograph valuable time was wasted.

There was even speculation by police sources who, at the time didn't want to be identified, that the crime scene may have been contaminated, making the search for the killer even harder. At one point, investigators tried to link the MacVicar investigation to a similar crime committed in November, 2001 in London, Ont., but there was nothing to confirm or deny both crimes were linked.

At the outset of the investigation the former municipal police service asked for technical support from the OPP's behavioral sciences section, resulting in a profile of the killer being released to the public.

The profile concluded police were searching for a man who may be subject to spontaneous and volatile outbursts of anger, a man who displayed such savagery that he could have been responsible for raping, then killing MacVicar.

The profile stated MacVicar's killer may still be living in the Quinte area and that there was the possibility of the killer striking again.

"He probably likes carrying a weapon,'' said a member OPP's Behavioral Section back in 2001. Police initially said the killer is a male Caucasian, 22 to 28 years of age — one who probably acted alone. The profile, said investigators, fits an individual who may live within walking distance of the crime scene.
In 2003, however, the profile came into question. In an interview, another case manager questioned why the profile was released to the public, describing it as a contentious issue.

Profiles, said the investigator are more theory than fact and could give the public — whom police were relying upon for information — an inaccurate description, or the wrong impression of the information they were attempting to obtain.

"In this instance it could have prefiltered information ... and when police asked for the public's assistance, the public may have used the profile as an accurate description of the killer,'' said the officer.

Article ID# 2688918


....................................

I hi lighted a few areas that have peaked my interest as I have been following Kathleen's case long before this thread was ever created.  I must say this is the most information that has ever been posted by the Trenton newspaper and it's quite revealing as far as I am concerned.

Of great interest is to why the weapon used to stab Kathleen to death has never been made public as " it might compromise the investigation"  any number of items can be used to stab a person..this leads me to think it's unique to perhaps a certain group of individuals. 

I was aware her picture was not given to the media until much later in the investigation and I always wondered why that was... but I would gather that was a call by the former Trenton Police chief, Armstrong, (who was turfed not long after her murder and in recent months been charged with sexual assault)

And the crime scene being contaminated..I have said this all along but could not find it in print..now here it is but of course given by un named police sources...but at least it's in print.

I am not much a believer in profiling but I think the OPP got this right, the killer is someone who is comfortable with his weapon and lives near the body dump site.  And knows the camera surveilance and timing of CFB Trenton.

The journalist who wrote the update to Kathleen, mentions there is a 50 grand reward regarding her case...I thought it was 75 grand..but whatever the reward, nothing has panned out. 

I find that really odd in a town that is so depressed financially..no one has turned someone in.  I doubt this has anything to do with an inaccurate profile.  It like has to do with  Colleen MacVicar's public comment that the OPP have been great, the military have been less than forth coming.

Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on August 01, 2010, 01:44:18 PM
am; I know it was $75,000 reward offered.... by the way, I wonder if anybody at all was asked to present their DNA for elimination? .... sounds the the chief might want to do the same :-\ :-\
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: LastOneToSee on August 01, 2010, 08:04:12 PM
I'm so glad to have found this site.  After reading thru various posts I am very perplexed and compelled as well!  First I would like to share a few opinions and maybe challenge a few.  I don't believe military personel would actively derail a murder invertigation of such brutality.  Haven grown up on that very base for six years of my life and thru knowing the very people who are doing 'the job' I have to stich with these are normal people who would not defend this violent act.  Second to the best of my knowledge this investigation was taken on by the Quite West Police who have recently transformed into the OPP.  I have also read articles indicating that they in some way or another they managed to mess up the investigation.  Fact, different people were handling the investion over lenghty periods of time, years to be exact and it somewhat felt as though this one was not going to get solved very quickly. 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: LastOneToSee on August 01, 2010, 08:49:55 PM
Kathleen MacVicar's mother, Colleen's statement regarding the lack of military cooperation in the murder of her daughter, whose remains were found on military property, really bothers me. Yes...the area had been recently opened to the public ( how convenient?) but it's not as if this area is distant from the base, it's just 50 feet away.  Being deemed public means, the the military police can't arrest a civilian if they are found on the property.  Trenton has many greenbelts and parks..why choose this area to dump Kathleen's body?

Middleton Park is a PMQ area, ( private married quarters) on June 15, 2001 when Kathleen's body was discovered. RW was posted here, he rented a place on base as he was splitting his time between Ottawa and Trenton.  The PMQ he rented has changed hands a number of times since 2001.

So has RW's profile, a former military poster here was adamant Williams was not in Trenton during the time of Kathleen's murder..his military profile said so. ( ?!?!) Low and behold it did say that but Toronto Globe and Mail proved differently.

So given the military lied regarding Williams posting during the time of Kathleen's murder, and their lack of cooperation to date as expressed by her mother, Colleen..what should we do as concerned Canadian citizens?

How does one go about arranging a petition to force and expose the truth regarding what the military were aware?




This is what's important here!  It would make perfect sense to dispose of a crime on property that would be investigated by another authority if you happened to be at the Top of the Food Chain and working for the opposing team. 
Secondly what house exactly did Williams reside in?  How far was he from woods behind the PMQ's?  Would he of ever run into Kathleen prior to this evening perhaps?
During my original interview to the police I told them about Kathleen's plans to meet with a guy friend the following day.  They had plans of bbq'ing (and maybe going to the beach??) if I can remember.  This was someone she had very recently met.  Can't remember any name... but I can certanly remember discussing this with the police when this was all fresh in my mind.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on August 02, 2010, 04:07:29 PM
Hello LastOne, I am glad you have found this site as well.  Welcome.  Please allow me to say how sorry I am for the loss of your friend Kathleen.  I never met or knew her but her murder has affected me greatly and for no reason other than I am a mother myself with all the misgivings one has when their child leaves home for places unknown..as did Colleen MacVicar.  But Kathleen was staying with family members in a secure and very safe area..or so it seemed.  Nine years later, her murderer is no closer to being caught since day one. 

Yes, you are correct regarding the initial police investigation being conducted by the Trenton Police.  It's always been confusing to anyone outside the area to understand the dynamics of the situation.  At the time of Kathleen's murder, Trenton Police were on the cusp of a take over by the OPP.  This take over was completed ( on paper) I believe in 2002..and the Trenton Police force was phased out..some officers remained..some were turfed as was the Chief, Armstrong..who is currently facing his own issues of sexual assault before the courts.

I agree with you to an extent regarding military personel derailing Kathleen's murder investigation.  To the regular military guy who just puts in his hours on the base and collects his pay cheque for an honest weeks work; He/She would probably not do this..but just take it a bit higher up.

You asked as to where RW stayed on base..I have no idea which PMQ but a poster months ago says her relatives now rent the place and this bothers them.  And the odd thing was, when RW was first arrested for the murders of Jessica Lloyd and Marie Comeau the local papers mentioned the police  would be searching, his house in Tweed, in Ottawa and in Trenton.
I'm so glad to have found this site.  After reading thru various posts I am very perplexed and compelled as well!  First I would like to share a few opinions and maybe challenge a few.  I don't believe military personel would actively derail a murder invertigation of such brutality.  Haven grown up on that very base for six years of my life and thru knowing the very people who are doing 'the job' I have to stich with these are normal people who would not defend this violent act.  Second to the best of my knowledge this investigation was taken on by the Quite West Police who have recently transformed into the OPP.  I have also read articles indicating that they in some way or another they managed to mess up the investigation.  Fact, different people were handling the investion over lenghty periods of time, years to be exact and it somewhat felt as though this one was not going to get solved very quickly. 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on August 02, 2010, 04:25:52 PM
Hey Lost..it's odd and depends on where you go for info as to the amount of the reward.  But really what does that really matter?  Other than if it was a local here that murdered Kathleen I have always figured someone would have turned them in in a heartbeat..even if a close family member.  75 grand could buy you lots in a town whose main income is either the military, social assistance or selling drugs.

As the story in the local paper states..un-named police sources( likely OPP) say the crime scene was contaminated.  ( Likely as half the people in Trenton had been on the scene long before the Trenton Police ever showed up..funny as the police station is 3 minutes away..in rush hour)   And then there was the question of jurisdiction as this area was "recently" deemed a public area and formerly DND property.   

am; I know it was $75,000 reward offered.... by the way, I wonder if anybody at all was asked to present their DNA for elimination? .... sounds the the chief might want to do the same :-\ :-\
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on August 02, 2010, 08:04:56 PM
I really believe that Katlhleen's murder is going to be solve. A true bliever. :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on August 04, 2010, 10:55:08 AM
Hi Cape, I so admire your belief and wish I felt the same.  But I don't.  I think far too much time has elapsed, too many screw ups regarding her murder and as the latest news story confirms the crime scene was compromised.  So even if the OPP had someone in mind how could they convict?  I was very surprised to read in the most recent media story that there were/ was a suspect from Nova Scotia...that's if it was accurate.  I had never heard this before.  The writer is a journalist from Trenton and usually covers municipal meetings..crime reporting is not his forte.

And what's up with the OPP never releasing the type of weapon used to stab Kathleen..as it might compromise the investigation.  To my way of thinking it was compromised from the start and by the admittance of OPP 'un-named' sources.

I figure the weapon is very unique and available to a select few who are not civilians in this military town..with a huge turn over. 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on August 04, 2010, 03:49:00 PM
Jobo, I definitely agree with what you are saying. This was someone who lived very close possibly that did this or someone who did this crime and moved on the next day, if there were troops going away to another country. All homes in the area should have had an officer investigate and see if there was anything unusual that happened the night that Kathleen was murdered. The reason most of those crimes are not solved is because the initial investigation is sloppy. I do hope that they will go back to square one and investigate everyone they interviewed earlier.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: golanvern on August 18, 2010, 09:07:23 PM
Kathleen will have been gone 9 yrs, June 13th..this Sunday and still no arrest in her brutal murder.   Her mother Colleen has made a pilgrimage from Glace Bay, NS on each yrs anniversay., so Kathleen won't be alone.

Each year the local newspaper does a little blurb regarding Colleen's visit, it's usually quite nice but however, very sad. 

Perhaps this year, with the media interest in RW, the maniac, more major newspapers will show some interest.  Perhaps prior to media interest the military will be more forthcoming and less suspicious than Colleen has previously stated.

Answers and accountability are long overdue.

Best of luck to you Mrs. MacVicar, you are a very strong lady!

I too wish and hope that the MacVicars receive the answers they need and the justice they deserve.

BUT, there is a whole lot of "erroneous" information being put forth on this site & in this thread which will do nothing to make that goal more achieveable. It only serves to cloud the case and have critical resources investigating things that are not related. I was posted to CFB Trenton when the murder of Kathleen occured. It was and remains a horrible, tragic and unforegiveable crime. To make broad-based claims on this site regarding a "military cover-up" and "places that don't exist [ie: Middleton Park] and "shut upeth and ones career will progress forward" kind of stsements is unwarranted and, quite frankly, libelous.

This investigation is in the hands of civilian police forces - NOT military police as some seem to infer. This area (Middleton park) is the CF (Canadian Forces) name for the PMQ (Primary Married Quarters) area where the married housing is located for those members of the CF who wish to rent them instead of purchasing homes on the local economy. It is NOT, nor has it ever been fenced off, gated or othertwise off-limits to the public. This land is owned by the federal government/DND, but it is NOT part of the base 'proper' of CFB Trenton.

Open up google maps and search for "Zellers trenton Ontario". Zellers is the large black bldg found immediately underneath the "A" on the map pin that shows up. Middleton Park PMQ area is located immediately north of that --- just on the other side of the heavily treed area. Zoom in and note the paths through the woods that are, and always have been used as "short-cuts" by civilian and military families alike in their walks to Zellers, dairy Queen (right next to Zellers). Note also that immediately to the left of Zellers is a civilian residential area - consisting of quite a few low-income apartments as well as single & duplexed homes. ALL of those homes are located just as close to the area along the trees with the clearing where Kathleen was found as the PMQs are. Anyone who actually took the time to observe the :path walkers" and their to/from activity would immediately realize that this area is used by everyone not just CF families. just happens to be CF land and that is precisely because it is located at the end of the runway for CFB Trenton. Now, look east of RCAF road to find the base proper (the fenced portions) ... that area is work area, runway, fire hall, DART etc. Also, south of highway 2, but well east of RCAF road is another base "work" area as well as additional PMQs ... this area is also fenced due to the work areas.

And, to be very clear ... the PMQ area of Middleton park is dissected by Curtis Road ... a road that is HIGHLY used by "civilians" as a short cut to RCAF road and a thoroughfare: they then either turn left onto RCAF Rd and head north to the 401 or to Hwy 22 which is a short cut for avoiding all the sets of lights scattered every 25 feet through the town of Trenton. A whole lot quicker trip with no lights! I know ... I took it every day for the 6 years that I was posted there. Likewise, they'll turn right onto RCAF Rd from Curtis to head into the base (a HUGE employer - even of civilians) or into downtown Belleville or even to get to Zellers from the northern part of the civilian town of Trenton --- ALL to avoid the upteen thousand sets of lights and the 35 minutes it takes to go through the town proper while only covering a km and a half of actual distance.

The CF will NOT release information to Kathleen's mother regarding RW because the have nothing to do with the investigation of Kathleens murder ... the local authorities will be the ones needing to give her any info pertaing to that crime. It is THEIR jurisdiction and certainly the CF is playing "no cover-up" in that. That is a local responsibility. Period. Russell Williams was NOT at CFB Trenton on the day that Kathleen was murdered; the police have already stated that and have cleared him as a suspect.

Now, if her murderer happens to be a military member, I hope his ass is caught and fried .... same thing if it is a civilian who committed this crime. To suggest that CF members are "OK" with covering up a murder or hiding a perpatrator because of their job with us is disgusting, insulting and absolutely unwarranted. We don't want murders in our midst any more than any of you do ... we'd prefer to see them rot in jail where they belong too.

Sorry for my rant, but I am disgusted at the thought that anyone honestly believes that I, or any other CF member, would even possibly fathom allowing a murderer to walk or cover up for them free simply because he or she is part of our CF family. That's BS and the conspiracy theories won't help to get this case solved.

JUSTICE FOR KATHLEEN.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Chris on August 18, 2010, 10:22:36 PM
Quote
Sorry for my rant, but I am disgusted at the thought that anyone honestly believes that I, or any other CF member, would even possibly fathom allowing a murderer to walk or cover up for them free simply because he or she is part of our CF family. That's BS and the conspiracy theories won't help to get this case solved.

I do admit, I agree this is not a reality. Even in the Truscott case some have felt CF is covering up someone to protect them. No way. No chance. And not possible either IMO.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: golanvern on August 18, 2010, 11:36:06 PM
Quote
Sorry for my rant, but I am disgusted at the thought that anyone honestly believes that I, or any other CF member, would even possibly fathom allowing a murderer to walk or cover up for them free simply because he or she is part of our CF family. That's BS and the conspiracy theories won't help to get this case solved.

I do admit, I agree this is not a reality. Even in the Truscott case some have felt CF is covering up someone to protect them. No way. No chance. And not possible either IMO.

Thank you.

On another point related to previous posts in this thread:


At the time, CF Officers did not reside in Middleton Park. They lived in the PMQ 'patch' south of highway 2 and well east of RCAF road (in a fenced, gated and monitored area).

And, regarding "miltary families are moved by the end of June" --- not a fact. Our miltary APS (Active Posting Season) begins in mid-July and runs through until mid-August. That occurs so that military families are not uprooting their children and moving during the school year while school is actually 'in-session' and ends mid-August so that those same families are moved into their new posting location prior to the beginning of the new school year.

What gets me on this is that although the property (woods) is indeed CF property --- that property is bordered by PMQs, civilian housing, shopping malls, restaurants, bars etc .... and they are all just as close to where she was recovered as the military housing is. Perhaps they too had their windows open that night; perhaps they too should have every one of their houses searched - not just the CF. THAT I agree with.  ... lest the dogs be wasting everyone's barking up the wrong tree due to the unfocused targetting of the foxes. Insisting that it is a military member and and a CF cover-up while so many others had opportunity, means and same (even closer) access may very well result in a murderer managing to pull off this one without a resolution. I'd hate to see that happen ... and am glad the police don't have the same mindset. RW has been ruled out as he was not on the base that day. Continually looking at him isn't going to get this one solved any faster.

It's time for some different theories ...
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on August 19, 2010, 10:06:58 AM
I believe that Kathleen was murdered by someone who lives right close to where she did. She was on her way home and this person could have been drinking and had a violent personality and took the opportunity to hurt and kill Kathleen. I do not believe the investigation was done properly in the beginning. I believe that every home within the three blocks of where Kathleen was murdered should have all had their doors knocked on and they should have known every individual who was living in those homes at the time. I believe this murder was done by a young man, 17 to 21 years, that is my instinct. I believe the person was a drinker and possibly taking drugs. Always carried a weapon and is known around the young set to have a bit of a violent temper. Those are my thoughts and I am not a profiler by any means, but that is what I believe. Look close to home and you will find Kathleen's murderer. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on August 19, 2010, 02:39:11 PM

 RW has been ruled out as he was not on the base that day. Continually looking at him isn't going to get this one solved any faster.

It's time for some different theories ...
[/quote

We have had a few previous military posters here providing differing information regarding military moves and the timing.  ( A couple of years back I had friends from the PMQ's who moved on a July 2nd.)
Information regarding Middleton Park being recently opened for public access was also
provided by a military person..or at least one claiming to be...
Your information regarding Williams being ruled out as he was not on base that day comes as a surprise for one of two reasons: The first being, it was difficult to actually confirm he was at CFB Trenton in June, 2001 as bio stated he was posted to Ottawa...Most surprisingly though is your statement he has been ruled out...of this I was unaware as I have not read this confirmation in the media. Would you by chance have a link to provide or perhaps the media source?
As for continually looking at Williams as you say..continual hardly.    For 8 yrs and 8 months there have been no suspects..and then finally Williams and his brutal crimes.
You suggest looking for different theories.....any suggestions?? 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on August 19, 2010, 02:55:50 PM
Cape, I too believe Kathleen's killer lived close to where she was staying.  And I as well feel the investigation was botched.  The most recent news article posted in the local paper was far kinder with words..the crime scene was compromised.
It's too bad Kathleen's family lives so far away.  If they were more local I feel they would have had a far better voice and Kathleen's brutal murder would have been solved and her killer behind bars.
Kathleen's mother's statement to the press regarding the military being less than 
forthcoming is very disturbing..imo.
I believe that Kathleen was murdered by someone who lives right close to where she did. She was on her way home and this person could have been drinking and had a violent personality and took the opportunity to hurt and kill Kathleen. I do not believe the investigation was done properly in the beginning. I believe that every home within the three blocks of where Kathleen was murdered should have all had their doors knocked on and they should have known every individual who was living in those homes at the time. I believe this murder was done by a young man, 17 to 21 years, that is my instinct. I believe the person was a drinker and possibly taking drugs. Always carried a weapon and is known around the young set to have a bit of a violent temper. Those are my thoughts and I am not a profiler by any means, but that is what I believe. Look close to home and you will find Kathleen's murderer. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on August 19, 2010, 03:22:30 PM

Quote
Even in the Truscott case some have felt CF is covering up someone to protect them. No way. No chance. And not possible either IMO.

But you still believe Truscott was guilty..correct me if I am wrong. And why do you feel it's so impossible there was a cover-up in that case? Just  a question...

I have a friend who is a retired Toronto homicide detective..we were chatting not long ago.  We were speaking on the subject of DNA exonerating the wrongfully accused.  I was speaking of Christine Jessop and the wrongful conviction of Guy Paul Moran and how the police rail roaded this guy.  DNA cleared him.  This ex detective looked at me and said; "the cops were right, they got the
right guy"   
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: golanvern on August 19, 2010, 05:39:47 PM
Cape, I too believe Kathleen's killer lived close to where she was staying.  And I as well feel the investigation was botched.  The most recent news article posted in the local paper was far kinder with words..the crime scene was compromised.
It's too bad Kathleen's family lives so far away.  If they were more local I feel they would have had a far better voice and Kathleen's brutal murder would have been solved and her killer behind bars.
Kathleen's mother's statement to the press regarding the military being less than 
forthcoming is very disturbing..imo.
I believe that Kathleen was murdered by someone who lives right close to where she did. She was on her way home and this person could have been drinking and had a violent personality and took the opportunity to hurt and kill Kathleen. I do not believe the investigation was done properly in the beginning. I believe that every home within the three blocks of where Kathleen was murdered should have all had their doors knocked on and they should have known every individual who was living in those homes at the time. I believe this murder was done by a young man, 17 to 21 years, that is my instinct. I believe the person was a drinker and possibly taking drugs. Always carried a weapon and is known around the young set to have a bit of a violent temper. Those are my thoughts and I am not a profiler by any means, but that is what I believe. Look close to home and you will find Kathleen's murderer. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

I too believe that kathleen`s murderer lived close to home; that does not a military member make, nor a member of their family. What is a 3 block area? The Q`s are not set out in `blocks` such as one would expect to find in an urban landscape. If one wants to therefore go by area - ie .... search everyone in a 1km area, then one will find they are searching more civilian residences than military, but military homes would be included. There is a presumption, that because this was CF land, that the military must somehow be involved. That is false.

CF Military police do not investigate major crimes here in Canada; that is a local police force`s responsibility. Even if someone was murdered IN a PMQ, the Locals PD would have been called in immediately to investigate - the MPs would simply secure the scene until those other forces arrived. That very situation occured in Trenton just last year.

The point is that the military CAN NOT release anything to Mrs MacVicar regarding her daughter`s investigation. THEY are not part of the investigation. Command, control, handling and jurisdiction of that is the local police. ONLY they can release information regarding an investigation that is their jurisdiction. You can bet your butt, that the CF provided the investigating department with `proof of whereabouts`of RW as soon as they became aware of his spree. The military is very meticulous at keeping records as to our whereabouts on any given day. The CF would have provided that info to the locals, who would themselves then be the ones to brief or release it to Mrs MacVicar. The CF isn`t going to release anything to her that may have the potential to damage the local PD`s investigation. And the CF certainly isn`t aware of what evidence the local PD has or does not regarding Kathleen`s murder ... they are not part of the investigation.

Mrs MacVicar should be contacting the Investigator to confirm reasons why and `proof`that RW was ruled out ... not the military. Those investigators should then been keeping her informed and updated as to the progress of their investigation; that`s THEIR job, not the CFs - especially so when the CF is not party to the big picture.

As for the base being open`.... the post I read it in certainly didn`t claim to be a CF member, but rather a local.  That local is wrong ... or may be misinterpreting things they googled. TMiddleton Park has not, nor has it ever been fenced, gated or secured - not when I was a kid there 35 years ago ... and not from 1997 to 2003 when I lived there either. BUT, the Recreation Centre (Pool, gym etc) located in Middleton Park WAS indeed "opened up" to the public for use (for a user-fee of course) a few years ago. BUT the roads have always been open`as have the wooded area between the Qs and Zellers. Until a few years ago, locals could drive through anywhewre, including the streets with the housing on them, but they would be denied access to the rec centre without military or military family ID. I think, someone read something on google about `middleton park RC opening up`and automaticly jumped to the conclusion that Middleton Park had been retsricted. It wasn`t and never has been.

I too have moved in June (before I had my 4 children) .... and I too have moved at the beginning of July - We rushed our move so that we could be in Gagetown NB for our possession date of the new home. There are always exceptions, but 99% of the moves are completed within that APS block. The post I was refrring to stated that `military moves are completed by end June`and that is COMPLETELY false. If that was someone claiming to be a member of the CF - they are outright lying about their service. Without a doubt.

For those of you who believe that CF members condone cover-ups etc etc ... have a look here (you`ll recognize my posts by the Vern in my username).

http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,90764.msg910493.html#msg910493

http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,90764.msg910022.html#msg910022

http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,90764.msg910216.html#msg910216

http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,90764.msg910217.html#msg910217

As for a myriad of other suspects & theories: there`s bars whose patrons use the shortcuts through the woods (civ & mil); `Rumours`` is the name of one of them IIRC. All the fast food joints for those with the munchies leaving bars are located right there by Zellers (Harvey`s) MacDos, Dairy Queen, Chinese Food etc etc etc. Any hundreds of persons could have been using Curtis Road as their driving shortcut that night ... and used the opportunity to grab, rape and murder an unsuspecting Kathleen &, knowing full well how busy that road is during the day by commuters using it as the local bypass to Belleville or the 401 to Toronto, dumped her at the woods`edge after they killed her.

Sorry, for my typing, but I can`t actually see what I am typing - for some reason my page and curser just keep going back up to the top of the quote box and thus I am typing blind.

Vern
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on August 19, 2010, 09:35:04 PM
golanvern, regarding the typing disappearing upward, check the top of your toolbar for a box next to the "refresh button" - which is right next to the http: address bar.  It there's a little icon next to the refresh or stop icons, it is a "compatibility button" .... it helps to click that .... if there's not a compatibility button, you can add it, but I can't remember if it's in tools or internet options, or a google add on.  Maybe someone here can let us know; I can't remember where I got it, but it worked for me when I had that problem - and once you have it, it works in all sites.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on August 20, 2010, 04:34:15 PM
Hi Vern, thanks.  I didn't even attempt to use the quote button as I don't have much luck with it and things seem to get screwed up.  And not bad typing for a person typing blind..I gotta hand it to you and as well for filling in the blanks re  the questions.  I feel as if you are a very decent person out for the same answers we all are:  who murdered Kathleen and why he hasn't been caught? 

It totally fails me that the former Trenton Police force messed this up so miserably.  But I have always felt and have so many civilians as well that the former force couldn't catch a cold.  But the civilians here say very little, if at all publically.  I feel for the most part it's a result years of "this is how it's always been"

I don't know the MacVicar family nor Kathleen's mother.  From my understanding of of the circumstances; Kathleen went to live with her uncle, a military person, who lived at the PMQ's.  One would think that given her uncle  was military, he would have advised her mother, Colleen of the correct channels to contact.

You mentioned of places, the bar Rumours.  I didn't know it at the time of Kathleen's murder..had never been there.  Currently, or since I was last there in '04 it's a military watering hole.     
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: golanvern on August 21, 2010, 08:45:07 AM
I don't know the MacVicar family nor Kathleen's mother.  From my understanding of of the circumstances; Kathleen went to live with her uncle, a military person, who lived at the PMQ's.  One would think that given her uncle  was military, he would have advised her mother, Colleen of the correct channels to contact.

You mentioned of places, the bar Rumours.  I didn't know it at the time of Kathleen's murder..had never been there.  Currently, or since I was last there in '04 it's a military watering hole.     

I can't speak for what Kathleen's uncle has or has not advised her mother. He may very well have advised her - he certainly would have been aware that the MPs don't investigate such things. I just know that if a body is found dumped on a farmer's land in a field somewhere ... no one would be expecting that farmer to be the one releasing info on the progress or status of the investigation and/or any suspects to the family of the murder victim. The very same thing is applicable here. Does that make sense now? I'm also quite sure that the CF would have said to her mother something to the effect of "you'll have to contact the local authorities for that info." That's not a 'brush-off', it's telling her where she needs to ask in order to obtain the answers she seeks.

Rumours has been in Trenton since at least 1990. It is a German Restaurant/Bar. At the time of Kathleen's murder it was very popular during the meal hours due to all us military types who enjoyed the meals due to our having served in CFB Lahr and Baden, Germany. Not many serving CF members have enough time-in to remember or to have served in Germany now. My niece lives and works in Trenton still (my husband and I are actually going there to visit with here today - I am currently posted in Kingston and he in Petawawa). She is 22 years old, vivacious, and always out ... I'll get her take on the bar scene & Rumours "after meal hours" these days because the couple times I was there during the evening after the restaurant portion closes, the attendees seemed to be mixed attendance - some short military haircuts, but many bearded & goateed types too (which rules out them being in the military).

Single military guys didn't live in Middleton Park PMQ area at the time of Kathleen's murder. Nor were there any SQs (Singles Quarters) located in the fenced in portion of the base-proper located east of RCAF road/north of highway 2 (we call that the "North side"). The SQs are located in the fenced and gated portion of the base proper that is located south of highway 2 and east of RCAF road (the "south side"). From Rumours to the gate at the south side to gain access back into their SQ barracks has to be about 2 to 3 Kms up hwy 2 towards Belleville --- a direct route from the bar-district to highway 2 gate (sidewalked the whole way) with would have someone from there absolutely not needing to be crossing through the woods to either get to Middleton Park PMQs or any civilian housing located on the other side of the woods. Kathleen was found on the other side of the woods from Zellers. The "Transient Quarters" (barracks for those who are deploying overseas, or on course) are also located on the South Side ... well up Hwy 2 and within the same gated and fenced area. Thus, any pers staying there at the time would have had no need to be cutting through the woods to go North. There are absolutely no singles or transient quarters located north of Hwy 2 (Middleton Park or the North side of the base).

Thus, I am convinced that the perpetrator of this crime, if military, was a married guy (or a divorced guy with kids in his custody) who would be living in the PMQs. BUT ... I don't think the perpatrator was military at all. I'm actually convinced that the perp is not, nor has he ever been, military.

Here's why: Extremely early in this case, the QW police ruled out any military connection and any connection to a "known" acquaintance of kathleen. I think they were able to do this precisely because her killer left a fingerprint (and hopefully DNA) at the scene. Since well before WWII, each and every one of us who joins the military is fingerprinted before we are sworn in and we are run through the system because we have secret/top secret security clearances etc. Those fingerprints are also required should we be killed in war or accident as means to provide posotive identification. Our security clearances are then run through again every 10 years at a minimum. Once fingerprinted, our prints remain on file and are accesible instantly by CFNIS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Forces_National_Investigation_Service) (Canadian Forces National Investigation Service - you'll remember that it was CFNIS who aided the Russell Williams investigation and provided them the evidence to directly link RW to his crimes).

I believe that the killer left a print ... and that, due to her being found on military property, that print was immediately run by CFNIS who received no hits on a CF member - past or present. I also believe that any "known" acquaintances of Kathleen were quickly asked to provide print samples ... which ruled them out.

Hopefully, the LE also have a DNA sample, but even without - the perp of this crime obviously has no prior criminal record. If they were able to so quickly and flatout "rule out" any military connection (other than she was dumped on military land) --- they have something and that must be fingerprints as we CF members do not provide DNA samples as routine in our service; fingerprints we do though.

We are looking for a civilian. We are looking for a civilian who has no prior record. I hope he is found before he commits another atrocious and unforgiveable act such as this murder.

Anyway, must go wake up my husband - he has slept in long enough this morning; will pick up some batteries for my digicam and will attempt to snap some pics of the relevant areas I have written about today while I am in Trenton so you can all get a concept of distance, layout, how close this is to bars, stores, fast-food joints, paths through the woods, PMQs and civilian housing areas.

Vern
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: golanvern on August 21, 2010, 08:46:07 AM
golanvern, regarding the typing disappearing upward, check the top of your toolbar for a box next to the "refresh button" - which is right next to the http: address bar.  It there's a little icon next to the refresh or stop icons, it is a "compatibility button" .... it helps to click that .... if there's not a compatibility button, you can add it, but I can't remember if it's in tools or internet options, or a google add on.  Maybe someone here can let us know; I can't remember where I got it, but it worked for me when I had that problem - and once you have it, it works in all sites.

It works!! Thank you so much!  ;D
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: jellybean on August 21, 2010, 02:03:35 PM
Another Military bash. Seems no end to it. It has always been that way as far as I can remember.
And I have faced many unwarranted acts of discrimination by civilians, and mean minded comments by adults, simply because my Dad was in the military. The bases, are always mysterious places to civilians, in the townships. They wonder "what goes on there"? As a kid, we always had to prove that No, we were not delinquents, and No, our parents were not drunks.  An uphill battle.  But the military, still reaches out to Townships to show them that they are human like everyone else. Oh the lament, when a base is closed down! The money that is poured into the economy dries up.
Thanks for setting this straight.
Peace
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on August 21, 2010, 02:59:52 PM
Golanvern, you are just being so damned specific here, you know what I am getting at when I talk about a three block area. In city blocks, it would mean that if it is military base it would be the same distance. There is housing there and I have relatives that lived on a military base and visited them, here in Canada and in Germany. So just because you are military and you want to be just so specific about an area, you know what I am talking about. It doesn't take paragraphs and paragraphs to state a comment. Telling what you want to briefly is adequate. And I did not point out that it was a military person that committed the crime. It could have been done by a military person or someone visiting the area or living there temporarily. Kathleen was a guest of relatives and she was working in the area and so could have others been doing the same thing. We are giving comments. I am from the Cape Breton area and know of the MacVicar's wanting justice for their daughter's murder. I feel sorry for them and I feel their pain of wanting to get some answers, because it is now nine years and nothing has happened to find her killer. I know the police are doing the best they can. We hope there will be justice for Kathleen. RIP Kathleen and my thoughts go out to your family and friends whenever they remember you. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on August 21, 2010, 03:43:06 PM
Jellybean, not certain if you are aware of the entire case and thread; it's a long one from first read and the information is sketchy..no one really paid attention to Kathleen's brutal murder until RW was charged with his " alleged" crimes.

I personally disagree with your perception this is military bashing but there have been many unanswered questions and various individuals,  ( former) LE as well as questionable ( former) municipal people, local media..one..our only  newspaper who have been under scrutiny...  In essence, it's the entire ball of wax, so to speak.

And yes, should CFB Trenton, ever close, the town would collapse as it's the major employer.  But CFB Trenton, will never relocate..far,far too much money has been spent here.   And in my opinion the civilians have finally realised this and refuse to be controlled any further.

Again and again I have heard the same reference from the military; "military family"...as with LE, RCMP, OPP, Firefighters, EMS it's a brotherhood.  Family says it all, it's not bashing..just self
explanatory.  There should be far more transparency and openness.

Another Military bash. Seems no end to it. It has always been that way as far as I can remember.
And I have faced many unwarranted acts of discrimination by civilians, and mean minded comments by adults, simply because my Dad was in the military. The bases, are always mysterious places to civilians, in the townships. They wonder "what goes on there"? As a kid, we always had to prove that No, we were not delinquents, and No, our parents were not drunks.  An uphill battle.  But the military, still reaches out to Townships to show them that they are human like everyone else. Oh the lament, when a base is closed down! The money that is poured into the economy dries up.
Thanks for setting this straight.
Peace
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: jellybean on August 21, 2010, 04:53:07 PM
I am all for transparency and openness. One doesn't always get it, and this can cause a lot of problems.  I do not live close to Trenton, so I really shouldn't comment on how this case has been handled. I have read that the Police (civilian) are checking on every place that he has been posted. I was at Trenton many years ago, with my husband, passing through onto another base, and it was huge, even then. It was quick thinking local LE who caught him, according to the papers out here. I can imagine living so close to such a huge base, can be overwhelming, and I mean that sincerely. I live a civilian life now, close to a base just outside of Edmonton.  It is smaller than Trenton, and the soldiers and their families are well respected within the community.   The unfortunate thing about this whole mess, is that Colonel Williams worked closely with the surrounding towns, and  now, the trust has been lost. Should that have been the case here, we would have these feelings of betrayal as well. No doubt about it, this man has left many many victims, including the townships. What a loss.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: golanvern on August 21, 2010, 05:26:52 PM
Golanvern, you are just being so damned specific here, you know what I am getting at when I talk about a three block area. In city blocks, it would mean that if it is military base it would be the same distance. There is housing there and I have relatives that lived on a military base and visited them, here in Canada and in Germany. So just because you are military and you want to be just so specific about an area, you know what I am talking about. It doesn't take paragraphs and paragraphs to state a comment. Telling what you want to briefly is adequate. And I did not point out that it was a military person that committed the crime. It could have been done by a military person or someone visiting the area or living there temporarily. Kathleen was a guest of relatives and she was working in the area and so could have others been doing the same thing. We are giving comments. I am from the Cape Breton area and know of the MacVicar's wanting justice for their daughter's murder. I feel sorry for them and I feel their pain of wanting to get some answers, because it is now nine years and nothing has happened to find her killer. I know the police are doing the best they can. We hope there will be justice for Kathleen. RIP Kathleen and my thoughts go out to your family and friends whenever they remember you. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

Nope. I am correcting a boatload of inaccuracies that are being bountied about in this thread as being `facts and factual`.  I feel sorry for them too; I am born and raised in Newcastle, NB. I too want justice for their daughters murder.

Someone earlier asked why my theory was ... I explained that and WHY. Sorry if you didn't like that. I say again ... we are lookign for a civilian suspect exactly for the reasons I stated earlier.

Let's say 3 square blocks is 1 square KM ... having been there yourself - you would understand then that Kathleen was recovered within a couple hundred metres of 2 bars, 4 civilian apartments buildings, a hundred or so civilian houses ... and about 20ish PMQs.

Widen your horizons ---

BTW, no in the the town of Trenton has lost respct for the military there. So sayeth the 50 or so some odd friends and relatives of mine who still live there.

RW did not kill Kathleen. Nor did any other CF member. Continuing to bring him up in this thread is NOT going to get her murder solved any quicker.

Justice for kathleen.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on August 21, 2010, 06:03:54 PM
I could be wrong, but something in my gut always told me RW had nothing to do with Kathleen's murder.  He would have stalked her; he would also have taken her somewhere for a period of time.  I strayed once to the perception that he may have used a near-by motel or cottage; but then I figured, there would have been records of his buying a room.  ...and I doubt he'd do that because his face was too well-known near and about.

I still believe the military protects it own, no matter what they do.  I'm talking from experience here.  I was privy to just how far this can go when a shy abused girl from CB, many years ago, was married to a military guy.... one who even booted his little child so hard, the child was air born into a wall, and left with permanent damage.  This young wife/mother pleaded to military police and others, during her months turned to years of abuse, and was rewarded with being carried off at one point to a psychiatric ward by the same military, because she made such accusations.  It wasn't until her father and brothers went to her rescue and brought her and her children back to CB that she was safe and the children had a chance to grow up.  That same man carried on that way for years, until ultimately he crashed a car at high speed while drunk.  Now he's the one with permanent damage.  There are a several other cases just as serious I know of, but wasn't personally privy to in a manner I can repeat, but one case was the body of a civilian woman being disposed of in a military "item" and left at the Sydney Police station back in the 70's.  This woman was involved with a military man, who also had a family.  His own daughters, after growing up, tried to have him charged with the murder, but we're completely ignored.  Not a thing was ever said or done about it.  It wasn't even made public.... there are many incidents as many people know.  Perhaps the military has cleaned up its act in that respect, but us older people know all about such cover-ups years back.

All in all Golanvern, you've made your point.  It's more than possible Kathleen could have been abducted and murdered by a drunken civilian on the spur of the moment - or by one she knew and trusted - or by a military person she knew and trusted.  It is what it is.  What is most disturbing is the fact that this happened in an everybody knows everybody, community.  ..... and of course, nobody knows anything!  >:(  That is just all too hard to believe. 

Somebody had a friend or relative come home with bloody clothes.  Somebody had someone around them completely scared shitless waiting for the other shoe to drop.  There is definitely at least one person in Trenton who knows of this aftermath imho.,  and they are keeping quiet!  Much worse is the fact that she lived and was found brutally assaulted and murdered on a military base.  Of course people are stretching the facts, giving opinions, recalling all they've heard about the military protecting their own.  When the killer is found, this will be settled.  Until then it is what is is.  You seem to be a decent upright good-living individual; so, I'm sorry you are left feeling socially bruised.  Peace my friend.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: golanvern on August 21, 2010, 07:24:17 PM
lostlingganer,

You`ll be pleased to know that the military has advanced wrt child and spousal abuse since the 70s right along with their counterparts in the civilian world.

Remember, back then --- no one talked about this stuff - military or civilian. Billy & Jane Stafford (Life with Billy) lived up the road from me during one of my dad`s postings to Gagetown NB. When, years later, Jane killed herself in that patking lot in Halifax ... I saw all the lights and sirens on my way home from work (I was posted in Halifax at the time, but lived in Shearwater) ... and I cried myself to sleep that night when I heard on the news exactly who it was that those lights and sirens had been for.

My dad and mom had sent me the book when I was serving with the UN (UNTAG) in Namibia, South Africa in 1989 to read. My dad, god rest his soul, had enclosed a short note about how scarey it was finding out what actually was occuring in the house 3 doors up from us all those years ago.

I also don`t feel socially bruised - I am quite willing to stick up for myself and my military brethern and correct inaccuracies and falsehoods. That`s fair right?  After all, I am in the military, where broadbased and inaccurate assessments can get innocent people killed. We are taught each and every day to be acurate and stick to the facts. Half a mil off on the compass dial can send a bomb into a village instead of the enemy.

Here`s a thread of today`s soldiers ... court martials and all. No one is civering up for anyone anymore. We`ve got beyond that almost 2 decades ago now.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=90764.0;attach=31021

You should also be quite pleased to know that I do not believe that "All you civilians MUST be trying to protect one of your "own civilians" who committed this crime and are covering up by insisting the military is covering up".

Is it somehow easier to believe that a military person did this?? I don`t know. I just know that we have all our fingerprints on file and that the OPP have RULED OUT any and all military involvement. They did that for some reason ... I`m still guessing that`s because they have run a fingerprint through CFNIS that was left at the scene and got diddly squat.

I move, that we fingerprint each and every Canadian citizen ... and DNA tests too. That way, no one should ever get away with murder ... and if one is innocent of crime and has nothing to hide they should have no worries about doing that. Perhaps there`s some merit in that --- given that the commission of all types of crime is significantly lower in the military population than in the civilian population and that we are well below the national average in all areas.

You`d never know that by reading some peoples judgemental and all-tarring posts though.

Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on August 21, 2010, 08:20:54 PM
Quote
I don`t know. I just know that we have all our fingerprints on file and that the OPP have RULED OUT any and all military involvement. They did that for some reason ... I`m still guessing that`s because they have run a fingerprint through CFNIS that was left at the scene and got diddly squat.

Now assuming that CFNIS (excuse my ignorance) means Canadian Forces (National?guessing) I-?
(Security?guessing) I didn't know civilian police could do that. - nor that they would give them access.

These occurrences I speak of did happen back in the 70's and I do hope and pray that has changed with the military over the decades.  ..... I must say the civilian population didn't advance in that direction until there were noted cases where men had threatened spouses with death, the law looked the other way, and the same guys ended up making good their threat.  There are still incidents of this today .... right on this forum.  ... albeit, a lot of spouses have pulled in their horns and/or gotten slyer due to so much campaigning by women's groups etc.  Such threats now bring automatic jail time (zero tolerance) due to precedents set.... cetainly not due to taking an example from military awareness or practices regarding such.


Quote
You should also be quite pleased to know that I do not believe that "All you civilians MUST be trying to protect one of your "own civilians" who committed this crime and are covering up by insisting the military is covering up".
no problem gol.  I didn't think that for a second!  The civilian population is not close knit in that way at all ..... that is per sa.  (unless of course there's gang activity at the heart of crimes, or people with influential friends) .... then you'll see John Q Public public turn into "wise monkeys" pretty quick.    As far as the peers of most who break the law, I'd wager there are thousands out there who would call crimestoppers in an instant.  .... No way are the general public supportive of "the ordinary Joe".

Quote
Is it somehow easier to believe that a military person did this??
I don't know if you've read the whole thread on Kathleen, or maybe there's too much straying off topic in other related threads (such as threads on RW) but I don't think people find it easier at all to blame her death on a military person.  We've all commented and speculated plentyon lots other scenarios involving Kathleen's final evening on this earth.

Quote
Here`s a thread of today`s soldiers ... court martials and all. No one is civering up for anyone anymore. We`ve got beyond that almost 2 decades ago now.
At the risk of ruffling your already ruffled feathers,  I must be seeing fiction documentaries on the news??? I'd better start paying more attention.  I viewed some "absolutely frightening incidents of military "runamucks" being covered up - at least until such was made worldwide news by press coverage and/or leaks from other sources.

Even though we've already strayed from the subject of Kathleen, my apology for my part - (maybe need another thread comparing military and civilian life)
Quote
After all, I am in the military, where broadbased and inaccurate assessments can get innocent people killed. We are taught each and every day to be accurate and stick to the facts. Half a mil off on the compass dial can send a bomb into a village instead of the enemy.
As I said, I must be watching fiction instead of news documentaries on today's wars.  How many times have soldiers been killed by friendly fire due to innaccurate assessments? or mistakes? ....civilians as well!
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on August 26, 2010, 02:29:27 PM
Lost, great comments! Thanks!
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on September 16, 2010, 05:24:27 PM
I just read through all 22 posted  pages here regarding Kathleen.  There are so many posters that have commented on her murder and have never posted again anywhere on any site, topic, province or otherwise within this group.
There are too many names and quotes with which to refer but one really caught my
attention.  The poster remarked that whatever happens within the military, stays in the
military. And we will never know the truth.
I truly believe this for in any other murder case there would have been an arrest.

(Kathleen, 19, from Glace Bay, NS but staying with her Uncle and Aunt, a military family, living on the base,  as we all know was found murdered 9 years ago,  her remains we found on CFB Trenton property..to date her killer has never been found.  There are no suspects)
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: jobo on September 30, 2010, 06:00:26 PM
Too many cases unsolved, if you ask me....But, we cannot discount a military person, or someone with ties to the military, just as we cannot discount any civilian.
 So it is true, Perdy, we shouldn't blame anyone until we know;  Kathleen's murder is still not solved 9 years later.  The killer is still out there.  Sadly.
  I  blame the authorities, police and military (since the crime happened so close to the base) for this crime not being solved.   Lots of experts around those parts, where are their answers?
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on September 30, 2010, 06:04:25 PM
Purdy, thanks for your input and observation.  It's so nice to know you read the site.  Too bad you can't offer an answer as to whom is responsible for Kathleen's murder.
I wonder though why you bash my comments to such a degree?
Are we not of the same mind?  To arrest and charge the murderer of Kathleen?
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on September 30, 2010, 08:15:15 PM
What did I miss?  who is cyber bulleying. 
 
Call me old ... I thought cyber bulleying was like stalking or something.... I must have missed a post or something??? ...or maybe one was taken down?

Maybe I'm getting the wrong message in previous posts above .... Is it amIam the two of you are referring to?

Woodland; I could swear you ordered amIam to take down one of her posts last night in another thread. .... In fact I'm sure you did.  And I seem to recall - little more than a month ago, you declared my posting on this site - to be ignorant and stupid - something to that effect - everybody noticed it.  Are you sure you want to call someone a "cyber bulley"?

I've been reading posts by amIam since at least a year on here.  I find he/she to be totally sincere and fair.  I have never ever seen that person disagree in any manner other than civil and intelligent.   Maybe you can explain exactly where this person committed this cyber bullying. 


 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on October 04, 2010, 04:19:37 PM

And knowing the town, area, military as well as civilian side, etc... she is not posting "fair" statements even if I stretch the meaning. She has constantly misled and that totally disrespects Kathleen and the thread.

We should concentrate on facts that help find Kathleen.

You have accused me of many things in your post that are truly not worthy of a response but I take great exception at your accusing me of disrespecting Kathleen.  Nothing can be further from the truth.

1) Media reports stated Kathleen attended a party with friends at a residence on Cresswell Dr., the evening of her murder.   The last individuals to see her alive were those individuals.

2) Media reports stated Kathleen's remains were discovered on DND property. 

Yes, there has been much objection to both these media statements by yourself and a number of individuals.  Unfortunately, I have not read one media report with a correction.

As for your further accusation I believe the military is a crime happy entity..have you read the local papers as of late??   

But this is not the place to post such links, this thread is for Kathleen.

 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on October 04, 2010, 05:23:05 PM
That's what I recall as well am. 

I don't think we all dreamed that up.  It was commented on by more than you.  And I've been on this site and this thread long enough to know that the majority of posters do go digging and checking out media links about what their fellow posters are saying.  Most don't just "go along", most people here are researching all the time.

As far as conspiracy theories and personal opinions -  this is what these sites are here for.  Now one person might think that this breeds hatred and strays from the facts.  That is not true.  Theories are "possibilities" people arrive at based on what has been brought forth..... by media coverage, and - yes, sometimes rumor and stories from people in the area of the event,  are what makes it possible to "think outside the box"..... and if anyone thinks the police don't do this, or read these sites, they are definitely thinking wrong. 

The more theories brought forth, the more chance of pieces fitting into place.  That's what it's all about.  Most people explain where and how they arrive at such theories and; I don't claim to be brighter than anyone else, but I can almost always discern when a poster is "giving a theory" or "an opinion" - even if they haven't said "I believe this could be what happened" or simply "I believe this" or "I think" or "IMO" - but it is best to explain why we think "what we think".

I find that the majority of posters do express themselves in the form of opinions and their personal theories, but they also express that accordingly.  Yet we keep getting people who are bound and determined that this site should state nothing but facts.  How do they know what is fact anymore anyone than else?  Just coming on board and saying "that's not true",  "that's slanderous", "that's nothing but conspiracy theories", doesn't make them correct either if they are not putting forth documented proof or media links. 

Just "shooting off" because you believe different, is no good to anybody as far as providing the contrary proof.  It is the same thing as "giving an opinion";  and most of those who jump onboard this way, don't even have the courtesy to say "In my opinion" or "I think this is possible here because."

In effect, if people are coming here to get "only proven facts" - no theories, no opinions --- it shouldn't take them reading more than one or two topics to realize they are "in the wrong place".  They might feel better sticking with "only media they trust", government archives, and their local court rooms.

I for one, have made my remarks about the military covering up for its own.  I told a story that "is fact".  I did not name the family or the soldier, but they were related to me; and it is fact.  It was a very serious event with life-long reprocussions.  And I've naturally heard of many other similar circumstances of the exact same nature because other people who suffered the same naturally are comforted by sharing their story with someone who has been through the exact same thing.

The fact of whether the military base property is where she was found, or whether it was public domain seems irrelevant.  She lived on the base, thus was part of that area; that's where she was heading home; that is part of how she died.  That can't be changed.  Had she had no connection whatsoever to the military base, in view of all the media coverage about deaths connected to the base, there's bound to be public supposition and theories.  That's human nature.  IMO, even if this thread didn't exist, it wouldn't change the public's perception on the whole event and what connection there might or might not be to the military base.  The media already brought that about.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Woodland on October 04, 2010, 05:42:03 PM
I agree Perdy and amIam - this thread is for concentrating on Kathleen and the facts behind what happened to her.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on October 08, 2010, 02:11:58 PM
I agree Perdy and amIam - this thread is for concentrating on Kathleen and the facts behind what happened to her.

Woodland, jmo but perhaps you have read through this thread and realised exactly what all the comments are about.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Concerned on October 08, 2010, 08:32:57 PM
 ;)
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on October 09, 2010, 03:45:10 PM
Perdy,

Pomeroy was as you are well aware was never a suspect in Kathleen's murder.  OPP made a swift arrest.

And then there was Bridgeman, charged with the murder of Sara Martin..it took LE awhile to nail murder charges against him but they did.  He recently plead guilty to second degree..he and Williams were roomates of sorts in QWD centre. Bridgeman, as bad an actor as he was in years past was excluded as Kathleen's murderer as he was incarcerated at the time.

However, both these murder cases happened AFTER the OPP took over the policing of Trenton.  Prior to that and during the time of Kathleen's murder, Trenton was policed by well..the Trenton
Police.  Actually, after Katleen's murder there was a big shake up of the force..the Chief of police Armstrong ( among others) was booted.  Not long ago..this March past, I believe the police chief of Trenton was charged with sexual assault.   There is more than one count..it happened over  period of time, as with another former Trenton police officer who has since been dismissed as a result of domestic violence.

There are others as with the individual within the former Tronton Police Force who was
placed as lead investigator of Kathleen's murder.  He had no qualifications in the area of expertise.  Thank goodness, the city of Trenton was on the very edge of amalgamation with the OPP at the time of Kathleen's murder as we, the public would be totally unaware.

Your comments regarding your daughter's remarks that she had heard that Kathleen visited friends that evening and north of Curtis Rd. is interesting.  As the last confirmed sighting of Kathleen in the living was on Cresswell Dr. Someone who was there and offered her a ride that evening but katleen declined and posted same on this site.  If you have read the entire thread as you have
claimed, this should have been apparent.

If your daughter has  differing information as to the last place Kathleen was seen alive and since you seem as willing to catch Kathleen's killer as the rest of us.. I ask:  Did you pass this information on to the OPP?   

http://www.thebarrieexaminer.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?archive=true&e=1092767 (http://www.thebarrieexaminer.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?archive=true&e=1092767)
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on October 09, 2010, 04:40:54 PM
I hear you Perdy.  There is assistance for tragedy in someone's past - I have never read that cyber bullying is a long term therapeutic answer.

Woodland, it's taken me a little while to digest your comment as I am not one to spout off a response without being informed of the back ground and the facts.  Your comment to Perdy caused a little puzzlement on my part, that is until further digging.   I am a compassionate person and now understand the remarks ..as you have commented there is help available. 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on October 15, 2010, 03:26:13 PM
My understanding from my daughter is that she was visiting friends just north of Curtis Rd and not far into the town. I have read on this thread though that she was visiting on Creswell Drive (?) so i don't really know. Either way, her way home would have been this road and she would have to pass by or close to Beckers store (24 hr store) on the corner of Byran street and Dixon Drive (if memory serves me correctly). Just FYI, I did not like going there at night because it was or maybe still is a hangout for anyone with nothing to do.

Perdy, it has been awhile since I asked if you, your hubby, daughter or whomever reported to LE the information your daughter related to you; that Kathleen visited friends, north of Curtis Rd the evening of her murder.  You have not replied and yet you have been so very vocal towards observations over the past months, going as far as stating you have singled me out just for than reason. 

Now if you were really objective, reasoning and in the know, you would be completely
aware the last place LE can confirm that Kathleen was alive was at the address on
Cresswell Dr.

Cresswell Drive isn't even close to " north" of Curtis Rd....kind of a vague comment coming from one who claims to know the area to such a degree.  So what is north??   

As far as Google Maps..were they available in mid June 2001?  So much has changed at CFB Trenton since that time..almost as if moving from one location to another.  Google is great on current  but nothing is available in the past.

Again, I ask, if you have this information as you have posted.  Are LE aware?? To not report the knowledge you have is a  ( imho) a further travesty to Kathleen.

I quoted Kathleen's mother in a link I posted..it's here and if you have read every comment I have made as you have stated as the reason for singling me out; you MUST have read Colleen's.  In it she commented the OPP have been great with the sharing of information, however, the military have been less than forthcoming.

I urge you, if you have anything further to add to solve Kathleen's murder, please do so.  this was such a terrible, senseless  crime and her mother and family are awaiting a conclusion by
that what it may. 




Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on October 16, 2010, 04:40:17 PM
Perdy - have a feeling you know that you do not owe anyone on this site any info about what you may have done.  And you are objective and reasonable.

I thought the demanding, in-your-face put downs were dealt with on another thread and were a thing of the past.

Woody, not meaning to be rude at all, but my question posed to Perdy in her reference her daughter informed her that Kathleen visited with friends north of Curtis Rd ( the night of her murder) was a valid query. 


 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: debbiec on October 16, 2010, 05:23:29 PM

I've posted a picture of Kathleen below.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: jobo on October 16, 2010, 05:58:02 PM
I hope that the authorities down in Trenton never stop looking for Kathleen's murderer.   No sitting around with nothing to do...bring out the files....look a little deeper into 'bad asses' known in the community.

 Cops get to know who is who...why have they not found this killer?  Compare with other cities in Ontario along Hwy #401...all the way to London.  I recall at one point trying to connect dots with an unsolved crime in London to Kathleen's murder.  But as always, need more details that are impossible to find. 

The authorities need to constantly investigate this unsolved murder.   We owe it to her family.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on October 17, 2010, 01:56:05 PM
There has been some argument as to where exactly Kathleen's body was found.  I have maintained as a result of media from the time ( June, 2001) her remains were located on Trenton CFB property...others have argued differently.  After 9 years it's difficult to locate any information regarding Kathleen.

However, Edsonmom, posted this link on the Williams Timeline thread.  I am reproducing it here as it states Kathleen's remains were located on base property.  The article also states she was strangled but I was of the opinion she was stabbed to death.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 TIP OF THE ICEBERG
In solving Jessica Lloyd & Cpl. Comeau's deaths, investigators are beginning to
work around the clock checking unsolved cold case files of assaulted or murdered
females in areas where Williams has been posted during the 23 years he served in
the Canadian Air Force.
      Kathleen MacVicar of Nova Scotia was visiting relatives on the Trenton CFB    
    in June 2001 when she disappeared. A few days later, her dead body is
      discovered, raped and strangled, lying on the ground in a wooded section of
      the military installation.

http://cmm.lefora.com/2010/09/11/comeau-corporal-marie-france-former-colonel-russel/ (http://cmm.lefora.com/2010/09/11/comeau-corporal-marie-france-former-colonel-russel/)
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: janice01 on October 19, 2010, 06:04:37 PM
It is nice know though that someone is still concerned about this case. I hope they have a POI.
Kathleen McVicor was a good friend of mine..we worked together at Stream in belleville...So sad my heart brks for her family and friends ...I will never forget being told at work she is no longer here...She was so full of joy really down to earth happy caring .. at work she would just brighten the day its wasent much after that i left  :-[ I pray all the time that they find who did this to her and let her family rest...god be with u my friend  xox
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: ahwhathappendtotruth on October 21, 2010, 06:26:22 PM
First of my condolances to Kathleen's family!

Wow I am never surprised when it comes to these things. I guess people feel the need to point fingers.

Well first of all Military bases are not cess pools of crime! Not to mention that not all service people are demented serial killers like Russell Williams. I spent a long time in the military and 98% of the people are good decent honest upstanding citizens and the military culture of covering things up ended around the time of the Somalia incidents and when I left was highly frowned upon! So seriously get you're heads screwed on right.  Guys like Russell Williams come from all walks of life (Paul Bernardo, Clifford Olsen, Jeffery Dahlmer, and the list goes on on and on). It just so happens that Russell Willimas was high ranking Military Officer. So having said that please stop categorizing Military people of whom the majority are good decent people and are out there dying to protect your freedom and rights.....

Now back to Kathleen..... For her family I believe that whoever committed this crime will eventually be caught and be brought to Justice and when they are I hope that they never see the light of day. Eventually some piece of evidence or some new technology will come along and identify the killer. Remember they are solving case 10, 20 and 30 years old  and beyond even.... whoever did this will eventually be captured.... The police are very good at remembering... and some of them take homicides personally. Maybe it was Russell Williams and he will eventually confess maybe it wasn't whatever the case at least one more of these monsters has been caught.... Maybe Kathleen's monster will be next..........we can only hope
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on October 24, 2010, 05:05:53 PM
Just one thing...Williams has been cleared of Kathleen's murder. He kept very detailed logs of all his crimes which is why he was charged with so many crimes so fast after his arrest. I think DNA would be a factor in clearing him also.

I have faith that one day Kathleen's killer will be caught. and that Trenton OPP did not know he was striking in the Belleville area (18 km away) and visa versa.

Perdy, do you perhaps have a link that states Williams has been cleared in relation to Kathleen's murder?  I have not seen nor heard that statement given by LE.

There at one time was an MTO sign as you drove along Dundas St. ( Hwy 2) and passed CFB Trenton, it stated:  Belleville 16 kms.  I haven't noticed that in awhile, likely something I just got used to and will check that out next time I pass by.

That link though regarding Williams being cleared of Kathleen's murder would be great though.  If you could find a moment, could you post it??
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on October 24, 2010, 05:35:45 PM
Well first of all Military bases are not cess pools of crime! Not to mention that not all service people are demented serial killers like Russell Williams. I spent a long time in the military and 98% of the people are good decent honest upstanding citizens and the military culture of covering things up ended around the time of the Somalia incidents and when I left was highly frowned upon!

ahwhatheappendtotruth,   Interesting comments. I thought Williams was an anomaly of sorts.  Perhaps 1%?  But you have mentioned perhaps there is more than this..perhaps a further percentage?  This is scary.

And futher the mention of a Somalia " incidents"  These were NOT "incidents" Somalis were tortured and killed by Cdn military people.

 And the covering up of the military and by the time you left "it was highly frowned upon"  Do you mean prior to the expose in Somalia it was okay?  If so, thank goodness it was exposed.

Hopefully one day, Kathleen MacVicars murder will be solved and the individual responsible will be exposed.  In the meantime, thanks for the further insight.


Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Woodland on October 24, 2010, 05:36:21 PM
Am - when you have a moment, could you perhaps provide a link that LE is looking at RW for this crime?  It would be great.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on October 25, 2010, 06:39:34 AM
From the Belleville Intellingencer"

Williams has served with the Canadian Forces since 1987 and police confirmed they are looking into unsolved crimes in areas he has served in since then.

"We are certainly tracking the movements of where this man has been over the past several years and we're continuing on with our investigation," Nicholas said, adding that does include the 2001 murder of Kathleen MacVicar. MacVicar's body was found in Middleton Park, an on-base housing development for mostly military personnel, in 2001. http://www.intelligencer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?archive=true&e=2440267 (http://www.intelligencer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?archive=true&e=2440267)
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on October 29, 2010, 06:06:36 PM
Perdy, thanks for the link,
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2540861 (http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2540861)
However, it's an old one from Feb.  I have neither seen nor read anything since Williams plea of guilt and from LE that has stated he has been cleared of other crimes...since his conviction.
Yes, Williams kept detailed records and on his own admission, he burned things when there became too many.  What did he burn destroy and burn?
And where is the most recent link he has been exonerated by LE from other murders.  This has been asked by others on the Russell Williams Timeline and so far there have no links provided.
I will apprise you if there there is anything concrete provided by a reputable and recent media source..FYI.
JMO
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on October 30, 2010, 04:15:05 PM
Purdy wrote:
"The link you posted (amIam) was written 8 months ago (January Intelligencer newspaper) ...old news. No longer valid as of February."
----------------------------------------------------------

I have repeated the link.  It's strange you have mentioned this link is not valid and claim it ws from the Belleville Intelligencer from January.
http://www.intelligencer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?archive=true&e=2440267 (http://www.intelligencer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?archive=true&e=2440267)
Russell Williams was not brought in for questioning by LE until Feb.7, 2010, as to his involvement in the ( at that time, abduction of Jessica Lloyd)  He confessed as a result of a smarter man.
Williams was charged with her murder as well as Marie Comeau's as a result of his confession, on Feb 8th LE publicially made the announcement.
Please, go back and read the link I provided and then perhaps myself as well as others will be able to understand any justification you may have. As always, just my opinion.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on November 06, 2010, 04:41:17 PM
Perdy, here's a more recent link dated Oct/ 2010
Apparently the book isn't closed on Williams...just FYI
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2010/10/07/15615816.html (http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2010/10/07/15615816.html)
Sorry you are receiving your info via IPod..ain't that accurate, obviously.
You accuse me of picking out trivial things of no importance? Is not accuracy important when it comes to a crime of this magnitude, on DND property and still unsolved, with the former commander now behind bars for a double homicide??  And at every other base he has ever been posted?
As for your invite to PM you..what could you possible say to me that you have not said publically?
Personally, I prefer open forums as as they are far more less apt to be tampered with. Not certain if you are aware..but did you know, a receiver of a PM has the ability to change the wording?? 
 


 

Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: jobo on November 07, 2010, 10:14:40 AM
I also do not think Williams is related to Kathleen's murder.   It does not fit his MO.   He goes to women's houses, not attacking them in a field.     That is what we have learned so far about Williams and his crimes.  So I will continue to think he had nothing to do with Kathleen's murder.   The police should have checked out, a little closer, who lived around there at the time.  Someone in the vicinity.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on November 07, 2010, 04:47:57 PM
I really do not believe Williams had anything to do with Kathleen's murder, either. I do believe that it is someone that evening that was following her home. I do hope the police open their files and go right from page 1 to the last page. I think they should get the eyes of a fresh detective on this case and maybe he will see something in the file that does not add up. I am thinking it is someone who lives in the community right there on the base. Did the police get the names of all of those who live close by to where Kathleen was staying. This could have been done by a young offender who lives in the area. I do hope that they are going over this file and still looking for leads and following up every single lead on this case. :( :( :( :( :(
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on November 08, 2010, 08:55:27 PM
I thought I would reprint this link from July 28, 2010.  It's interesting to note that although the investigator numbers have dwindled and have been reduced to a mere one regarding Kathleen's murder.  The one left is Chris Nicholas..the OPP investigator who was instrumental in nailing Willams..and so there is hope. This man is the best.  Yes, the trail is very cold after 9 years but there is hope. 

The only error regarding this case is the amount of the reward as reported by the journalist.  It is not 50 thousand dollars but instead 75 thousand..info a be confirmed on the OPP webpage.  Not that a dollar figure matters but totally accuracy should be the full point.  But that's jmo...

It's interesting that although it was revealed by the OPP that Katheen was stabbed to death, the refuse to expand on what type of weapon as the case could be compromised. The profile of the killer has stated he was someone "familiar" with weapons.   I have always found it odd the former police service refused to publish Kathleen's photo..until the OPP did so.  The media and public were up in arms at the former Trenton Police Forces refusal..and then the municipal government weighed into the fray..this was curious.

Let's all hope that with Chris Nicholas in charge, although a one man band he has lots of pull within the OPP and perhaps finally Kathleen's killer will be exposed for whom his is and brought to justice.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TRENTON, Ont. – The Ontario Provincial Police are now calling the sexual assault and slaying of Kathleen MacVicar at CFB Trenton an active cold case.

The search for the 19-year-old Cape Breton teenager's killer has been underway for more than nine years.

MacVicar's body was found by a national defence groundskeeper June 15, 2001, near a wooded area at the Canadian Forces Base in Trenton, Ont. She had been sexually assaulted and stabbed numerous times.

"Just because it's a cold case doesn't mean we're not working on it and the murderer will never be found," said OPP spokeswoman Kristine Rae. "We're still optimistic."

Investigators have never revealed the type of weapon used to kill MacVicar. Neither have they said exactly where the murder took place, although it’s believed the killer dumped MacVicar's body just inside a wooded area a few metres from the road. Police have insisted releasing those details could compromise their investigation.MacVicar had been staying with an aunt and uncle in Trenton and working at a call centre in nearby Belleville, Ont.

A happy MacVicar phoned her mother Colleen on June 13, 2001, excited about her pending high-school graduation. It was the last time the mother and daughter would speak to each other.

Two days later, an officer with the Cape Breton police knocked at the front door of the MacVicar residence with the tragic news.

She was last seen alive June 13, two days before her body was found. MacVicar had left a friend’s residence on the southwest side of Trenton at about 10:30 p.m.

It is believed she was walking to Middleton Park, near where her body was discovered.

MacVicar has been described as a friendly, caring individual. People say she was quick to make friends and she trusted those friends.

When the OPP took over the investigation from the local police, they labelled it Project Shadow. A team of OPP officers initially included a lead investigator and six other team members.But in the years since, the team has dwindled to just one case officer, Insp. Chris Nicholas.
Nicholas could not be reached this week for comment.

At various points throughout the investigation, police said they had persons of interest in their sights.

Included in their ranks were several people from out of province, but there has never been enough evidence to press charges.

In previous interviews, police admitted their investigation has led them to MacVicar’s home province of Nova Scotia.

A $50,000 reward still exists for information leading to the arrest of MacVicar’s killer.

In the preliminary stages of the murder investigation, local investigators refused to release a photograph of MacVicar.

That decision led to criticism by the public, media and even city politicians that by not releasing the photograph, the police were wasting time.

There was even speculation by police sources who, at the time didn’t want to be identified, that the crime scene may have been contaminated, making the search for the killer even harder.At one point, investigators tried to link the MacVicar investigation to a similar crime committed in November, 2001 in London, Ont., but there was nothing to confirm or deny both crimes were connected.

At the outset of the investigation, the municipal police service asked for technical support from the OPP’s behavioural sciences section, resulting in a profile of the killer being released to the public.

The profile concluded police were searching for a man who may be subject to spontaneous and volatile outbursts of anger, who displayed such savagery that he could have been responsible for raping, then killing, MacVicar.

The profile stated MacVicar’s killer may still be living near Trenton, and that he might strike again.

“He probably likes carrying a weapon,” said a member OPP’s behavioural section in 2001.

Police initially said the killer is a white man, between 22 and 28, and that he probably acted alone. The profile, said investigators, fits an individual who may live within walking distance of the crime scene.

In 2003, however,another case manager questioned why the profile that was released to the public, describing it as a contentious issue.

Profiles, said the investigator, are more theory than fact and could give the public — whom police were relying upon for information — the wrong impression.

“In this instance it could have pre-filtered information ... and when police asked for the public’s assistance, the public may have used the profile as an accurate description of the killer,” said the officer.
http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/07/28/14854271.html (http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/07/28/14854271.html)
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on November 10, 2010, 04:53:08 PM
I am thinking it is someone who lives in the community right there on the base. Did the police get the names of all of those who live close by to where Kathleen was staying. I do hope that they are going over this file and still looking for leads and following up every single lead on this case. :( :( :( :( :(

It's so very sad that Kathleen's murder has been unsolved after over 9 years.  I agree, it is someone who lived in the community right there on base.  However, I doubt very much Kathleen's
murderer will ever be arrested..far too much paper work and military smoke and mirrors.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Concerned on November 10, 2010, 05:50:48 PM
Does anyone know why she was going to the park? Did I read that right?
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Concerned on November 10, 2010, 08:10:37 PM
Perdy, thanks for clarifying that, when I read the following excerpt it sounded as though she left a friend's house at 10:30 p.m. to go to the park. And, they mentioned she was trusting. I didn't realize she was walking home. I guess that would make more sense if that were the case, wouldn't it.

Quote
She was last seen alive June 13, two days before her body was found. MacVicar had left a friend’s residence on the southwest side of Trenton at about 10:30 p.m.

It is believed she was walking to Middleton Park, near where her body was discovered.

MacVicar has been described as a friendly, caring individual. People say she was quick to make friends and she trusted those friends.

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/07/28/14854271.html (http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/07/28/14854271.html)

Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Concerned on November 11, 2010, 06:40:58 AM
 :-[  That makes sense.
Admittedly, I am not connected to this case (obviously  :-[), but have always read it over as I have a very special soft spot for young adults that are not given the chance to live a full life, from the screwed up hands of others. Although we can't contribute the answer (don't we all wish we had that one) we can care. Even if it is from our own view, with our own questions. My hope is someday we (those on this site, those in law enforcement, those in the military, those that know the perp...)  and can all put the pieces each has together and provide peace to Kathleen's passing. She was way too young to not be amongst us. And she, obviously, is not forgotten.

Something happened on that walk. I wish we could have helped her. It's a sad day when we can't walk from point A to point B. Those that don't let us, need to be caught.  It sounds like everyone on this thread is in agreement on that. And, in agreement that losing little Kathleens is not acceptable. I think we are all frustrated that so many years have passed and there is no resolve. Meaning, the perp walks around with the propensity to hurt others. How very sad is that, for society as a whole.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Concerned on November 13, 2010, 09:20:08 PM
Thanks for that Perdy. That is helpful.

So what we have is an act of anger. Maybe not planned, although carrying a knife does have some forethought. And it happened on a pathway home.  That would lead me to think either it was a chance meeting of a person that is lurking out that late at night, perhaps on her way home. Or, someone that knew her and knew her path.

Could she have rebuffed someone at the gathering she left? Who was the person that asked her if she would like a ride home? When did that person leave the party and when did that person arrive at their home?  Was there anyone at the gathering that could have been jealous of her, perhaps over a boy? What was her relationship like with the uncle? Did she ever express not wanting to go home or avoid going home early? Were there questionable neighbors of the aunt/uncle that could have been looking for her to come home? Any neighbors that were on medication for a mental condition that may not have been properly medicated at the time? Were transient shelters or hotels in and around that area? Could she have walked past an area that homeless sleep and someone followed her?  Was there a person at any nearby bars that got nasty and abusive when they drink?  Could she have worked with someone that was waiting near her home for her to get home?

I'm trying to think of reasons why a young girl would make someone so upset they would stab them, and all I come up with is jealous. 

Wonder what time this happened to her. And what time she left the gathering. And, how long it would take her to get to that point.

The other thing that bothers me about this case, is it was what seems to be a one-time only event. That would lean towards jealousy or transient. Or someone that was temporarily in the area for some reason.

Thank goodness your daughters were ok.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: jobo on November 14, 2010, 07:26:09 AM
From what I understand, when someone is stabbed numerous times, isn't it more of a personal thing?   A rage killing? 
If Kathleen was stabbed numerous times, then the perp would have had blood on him.   Wonder if he had a room/apt to himself?   He could go back home and clean up and never be seen.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on November 14, 2010, 06:44:36 PM
Perdy...what leads you to believe Kathleen left her friends home on Cresswell Dr, the last place she was seen alive at the south end of Trenton and close to South bridge; walked well out of her way..at least 30 minutes and took the North bridge back to the base?    If find this somewhat curious even though it was a warm summer evening. 
Way, way back in the posts on this thread a poster commented a local downtown ( near the south bridge) jewellery store's security surveillance picked Kathleen up walking past at 12:30am on that final night. 
I'm pretty certain both Pomeroy and Bridgman were both cleared as suspects...the OPP were on Kathleen's murder case at that time.
Ever notice when you ask Google Maps the shortest driving route from point A to point B is isn't accurate??  It's so maddening when one is aware of the shortest route.  Good grief, Google gets confused with even the suggestion of Trenton as it asks if you mean Quinte West..lol
 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Concerned on November 14, 2010, 07:31:24 PM
Please forgive me as I want to learn more about this case (sometimes it is hard to jump in when so many people know it well) so be gentle on reproach. This is a long thread, and I have not been through it fully. But as I looked into new news reports, I've discovered something that caught my attention. It will take two posts to explain, but it has interesting information in both posts. 

Quote
Here is the old information filled with facts (that have been tossed around lately) as reported by CTV News in the video "Catherine Lathem on a cold case that's stumped police - "Here now: Murder on the Base" Notes from the video:

Kathleen's Residence: Was originally from Glace Bay, NS, but went to live with relatives in Trenton, ON.

Kathleen's Employment: At Stream International, a call centre, 540 Dundas St. W. (sign in video said Stream Global Services, but audio called it Stream International)

Method of Kathleen's Murder: Multiple stab wounds with evidence of sexual assault.

Kathleen was Last Seen:  Leaving friends the evening of Wednesday, June 13, 2001 in downtown Trenton (sign in video read Cresswell Dr.)

Kathleen's Body Found:  Friday, June 15, 2001. “Found in the woods, just steps from CFB Trenton, on DND property.” 36 hours after last seen leaving friends Wednesday evening. At the time the area was patrolled by Quinte West police department who admittedly did not have experience with a homicide since it had been decades since one happened in Trenton (this was stated by the Lead Investigator). However, it was thought at the time they would be capable. Memorial:  Colleen MacVicar, Kathleen’s mother has placed a cross where Kathleen was found. (Note in a seperate article,  states Kathleen's body was found:  “Her body was discovered in a field on Department of National Defence property just outside the city boundary, off Dixon Drive, almost six years ago. The OPP's Project Shadow continues to work on that case, but police have released nothing on the progress of the investigation. Source: http://www.trentonian.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?archive=true&e=894551 (http://www.trentonian.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?archive=true&e=894551) )

Controversy:  Ernst Kuglin, Trenton Newspaper reporter on the story since it broke (and featured in the video) states that the investigation was questioned all along. Mayor at the time was wondering if taxpayer’s were getting their “bang for their buck” and whether LE were competent to conduct the investigation. The Town Council at the time had been considering a transfer of policing duties to OPP, and many thought the Quinte West OPP believed this case could prove their capabilities. Within six months, the OPP took over the case, and then took over the police department shortly thereafter. Kathleen’s mother expressed concern in the video on how much evidence was lost in the takeover processes.

Lead Investigator OPP: Detective Scott LeBlanc, formerly from Quinte West police department, but at time of video was now at OPP on the case as Lead Investigator. Note, on June 18, 2001 the video showed press conference with former investigator of Quinte West Greg MacLean speaking. 

Suspects:  A military connection was ruled out early on (Does not say by who, when, or why). A similar attack in London, ON, also ruled out early on (Does not say who, when, or why).  However, when the reporter asked the Lead Investigator Detective Scott LeBlanc whether Kathleen’s case had any connection with Sarah Martin’s case where Robert Brinkman was found guilty of her murder in July 2007 the Detective replied “I can’t comment on it.”
http://ottawa.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090220/OTT_Unsolved_Murders_090220/20090222/?hub=OttawaHome (http://ottawa.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090220/OTT_Unsolved_Murders_090220/20090222/?hub=OttawaHome)

Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Concerned on November 14, 2010, 07:42:03 PM
Here is the second article I refered to in the previous post. I have been trying to find out whether Robert Brinkman was ever formerly cleared of Kathleen's murder.  I found this fairly recent article and find some info in it curious. Does anyone know if he is officially cleared? There seems to be a lot of similarities. (It is a long article, but thought it best if you read it for yourselves to see if you question some items, as well)

Is it possible that they lost the evidence, compromised the evidence, or negotiated with Brinkman for a reduction from first to second because they didn't have the murder weapon. And, Brinkman took second so he wouldn't be considered in MacVicar?  I have only the above two articles to base this on and this is just a theory IMO.

Quote
Brickman gets life for killing of Sarah Martin
News
2007 Trenton murder
By Jason Miller – QMI Agency
Updated 7 months ago

The man charged with knifing a Quinte West woman to death was sentenced to life in prison in a Belleville Superior Court Thursday.

Justice Richard Byers also increased Robert Brickman's parole eligibility date from 10 to 14 years. Brickman, 42, plead guilty to second-degree murder in the 2007 slaying of Sarah Martin, of Trenton. The plea saved the Crown and courts from what had been expected to be a lengthy trial.

Byers called the plea a "compromise" before adding that Brickman's decision to plead guilty before trial was a "wise one."

"You are sentenced to imprisonment in the penitentiary for life," Byers said.

Brickman's charge was reduced from first-to second-degree murder for the slaying of 22-year-old Martin.

Brickman has a lengthy record of battling mental illness, a condition that got worse in 2004. Court documents revealed that Brickman was off his medication and going through an episode at the time of Martin's death.

Byers said there were "enough red flags that this man needed help" and the community failed to acknowledge those warning signs before it ended in tragedy. He told Martin's family they won't find closure in a courtroom, but that he hopes they might find it later.

"I'm sorry this happened to you," he said.

Martin's body was found in a wooded area on Mount Pelion in Trenton in July 2007. Brickman was arrested in early 2008 following an eight-month investigation by provincial police. She and Brickman worked together at TeleTech Holdings Inc. in Trenton.

The public gallery inside the courtroom was packed with several family members of both the accused and the deceased. Brickman's brother sat on a bench directly behind Brickman who sat in the prisoner's box. Some family members, including Martin's stepmother, wept openly throughout the proceedings.

Victim impact statements from Martin's father and mother were read in court. During his victim impact statement, Martin's father, Terry Martin, called Brickman "garbage." Terry Martin said his daughter's death has inflicted him with "terrible pain" that as created many "sleepless nights." He added that he hopes "death" finds Brickman in prison.

"You have taken my daughter away, just when she was starting her life," Terry said. "We have a lot of anger toward you."

After all the statements were read, Brickman stood up and made a brief apology to Brickman's family.
"I take full responsibility," he said. Martin's mother, Judy Martin, was not sparing any harsh words as she left the courthouse.

"He deserves more," Judy said.

Judy Martin, who has been living in Hamilton since 2004, said she was visiting Martin's grandfather in Trenton, when Martin vanished. They were supposed to "do mother and daughter things which (Brickman) took away from me," she said.

"I'm still shaking," she added. "There will never be closure because I will never have my daughter again."
Crown prosecutor Jodi Whyte called the murder a " senseless act." She asked Byers to bump up Brickman's probation eligibility to 14 years because he had "a long history of violence against him," that included his constant desire to harm someone.

"I don't know if there is any remorse," she said. "There is some level of planning to what happened here."
Patrick Hurley, Brickman's defence lawyer said that his client was "forthcoming with information" when he could have opted not to be. He also contended that Brickman should be credited for his guilty plea, that saved the family the grief of a trial.

He said there was no forensic evidence that linked Brickman to committing the actual stabbing. He asked Byers to take into account that, if the case went to trial, there is a possibility that the charge could be reduced or even thrown out.

Hurley said that Brickman has a 13-year-old son along with his four siblings and 76-yearold father, living in Trenton. Hurley's plea fell on deaf ears -- Byers decided to agree with the Crown's request.

Court documents revealed that on July 11, 2007, Brickman invited Martin to accompany him on a beach trip. Martin informed her roommate that she was going to the beach with someone from work, before leaving her apartment on July 12.

Instead of heading to the beach as planned, Brickman took Martin to an isolated area in Mount Pelion, Whyte described as "off the beaten path." Brickman used a knife he had in his car to "stab Sarah Martin once in the neck," Whyte added. The knife has never been found.


Family members became suspicious on July 16, after no one heard from Martin for several days. The police were alerted and the hunt for Martin began.

Quinte West OPP interviewed Brickman who claimed he cancelled the trip to the beach before indicating that the last time he saw her was at work on July 12.

Police later found records of several phone calls Martin made to Brickman's phone before she disappeared. Martin also used a computer to communicate with one of her friends on Facebook, July 12. Police traced the IP address, which matched Brickman's computer.

Whyte said Martin's body was found July 17 by five young boys, who were playing in the Mount Pelion area. Whyte said after police spoke to Brickman, he "emptied his bank account" and left the area.

Brickman was not charged until several months later when he was arrested as he was leaving Quinte Detention Centre where he was being held on assault charges not linked to Martin's death.

Officers discovered a notebook with a suicide letter in Brickman's car.

He told officers that he was hearing "voices in his head that he can't turn off," Whyte said.

Whyte said Brickman was seeing a psychiatrist in 2004, to deal with his mental health issues, after he threatened to stab someone. Brickman return to the psychiatrist 18 months later but didn't follow up after that. Whyte said Brickman had been suffering from depression and bouts of anger since 1988.

"It's been a rough three years for them," Whyte said of the Martins outside the court. "I'm glad it has come to an end. It's been particularly very hard on her dad."

"It was a highly circumstantial case," she said. "In the end, its life in prison which is the best you're ever going to get. To have a sure thing and closure for the family is important."

Article ID# 2536180
http://www.trentonian.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2536180 (http://www.trentonian.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2536180)


Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on November 15, 2010, 05:28:48 PM
Perdy, haven't you mentioned that Beckers store before?  I believe you have repeated this a few times.
A link regarding where Kathleen was last seen?  The one you have asked me for? The one one on Cresswell Dr.?   
It is stated here in various places by those other than myself and that knew the events of that evening.
But most recently by Concerned on post # 376.  The link is provided to all and everyone.

 

Perdy...what leads you to believe Kathleen left her friends home on Cresswell Dr, the last place she was seen alive at the south end of Trenton and close to South bridge; walked well out of her way..at least 30 minutes and took the North bridge back to the base?    If find this somewhat curious even though it was a warm summer evening. 
Way, way back in the posts on this thread a poster commented a local downtown ( near the south bridge) jewellery store's security surveillance picked Kathleen up walking past at 12:30am on that final night. 
I'm pretty certain both Pomeroy and Bridgman were both cleared as suspects...the OPP were on Kathleen's murder case at that time.
Ever notice when you ask Google Maps the shortest driving route from point A to point B is isn't accurate??  It's so maddening when one is aware of the shortest route.  Good grief, Google gets confused with even the suggestion of Trenton as it asks if you mean Quinte West..lol
 

I honestly do not quite understand what you asked or are getting at? But I have asked for a link to explain where she was. I never claimed she was on Creswell. Maybe can you clarify your question?

I will need to read back and check the video information. Many rumors floated around at that time, some really upset my daughters and one I overheard i will not repeat. Because someone says something, that to me does not make it so. So I asked for the link that says where she was that night before she walked home, and now will hunt for the surveillance info. :)
EDIT: This started as a rumor the camera was at Becker's..then maybe one downtown caught her on video, maybe a bank or jewelery store camera, and then it was a camera at the jewelery store and now a jewelery store at a certain time. No reliable information as been released regarding an image on a camera.
I am not sure what you mean in reference to google map? I remember Trenton's layout quite well.

Both Pomeroy and Brinkman were indeed both cleared in Kathleen's murder. Kathleens case remains open. I am not sure why you directed your statement to me? I never claimed otherwise.

This is a long thread now..I need to go back and see what info there is. :)


Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on November 15, 2010, 05:57:13 PM
Perdy...it's good to read you have taken the time to read the posts on this thread from the beginning. It certainly is a very long read but then again it has been over nine years since Kathleen was brutally murdered. But it is certainly a step in the right direction to read back through and familiarize yourself.

In your post, # 379...I would quote it but it's far too long and would take up far too much space, in my opinion.

You mention numerous page numbers as reference and have made a number of comments regarding certain information the posters stated. You have provided the odd quote, however not by a specific member. 

I realise you have spent a great deal of effort on your post # 379..am wondering if you find time, would you be able to actually narrow things down as little with the provision of the members?

It would certainly make things much easier in my opinion, if names and post numbers were included in your comments section.   It's all those little tiny details from so many individuals on this site thak may be over looked

Just a suggestion.. 
 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Have faith on November 15, 2010, 08:02:46 PM
Perdy:  That must have taken you hours to sort through! Thank you for the effort.  One question...how the heck do you type all that, in the little, tiny window? lol

Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Concerned on November 16, 2010, 04:29:42 PM
Quote
Both Pomeroy and Brinkman were indeed both cleared in Kathleen's murder.

Perdy, this point is really important to me. I have tried to find proof that Brinkman was cleared in MacVicar's murder. No news releases, no police confirmation, no announcement. If you should have proof of this, can you please direct me to that so I can read the source direct.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Concerned on November 16, 2010, 09:52:33 PM
Thanks for that. No rush. I have felt that it was someone that had propensity, and that this was not the first or the last time. When you see Brinkman's unstable mental health combined with his motive for the crime of just wanting to stab someone; his propensity to find someone convenient; his propensity for rage in his crime; and having dropped off a body in the woods near a road, well it began to fit, IMO. If Brinkman worked in call centers, did he work with Kathleen at the time? Hang around those that knew her? Did he know of her before and suggested that he would pick her up for a date, so that is why she was ok with walking home--fairly far away in the dark?   The unknown was where Brinkman was at the time. And, whether Brinkman had a similar propensity earlier on. IMO his MO had quite a few similarities to create curiosity.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on November 17, 2010, 05:03:01 PM
amIam - there is no link on Creswell drive. I know the video (as I also mentioned in my post, shows the street sign but no one ever reported this is where Kathleen was that night. This may be but without proof, it is just a pic of a sign and could have been any sign. I do read this thread quite often. I recommend you do the same. I think everyone should. If you did, you would know why I mention the Becker's. You would also know if you read the post that I wrote, that I was not the first to mention Beckers. But for "shits and giggles" here is why I mention this store again. It is on her path home from Creswell as well as from where my daughters say she was. It is a tough place to be at night. I would note here that you never mention Beckers. The only bad place you mention is CFB Trenton. That is just my observation.

With all due respect, I omitted names and most quotes for a reason. I am not out to point fingers or get into a "pissing match with anyone. I posted what is there for anyone to read. I concentrated on only a few points that have been discussed to use as examples..I think people can read for themselves and determin what is fact...if they are let to do this without further smoke and mirrors. Therefore, I will not be going back and quoting and pointing fingers. It would just be an invitation to quarrel over insignificant details.

it is indeed a long thread. But really, it has only been active a year :)
Still a long read

I am curious..you discount the last place Kathleen was known to have been as Cresswell Dr.  and yet on the otherhand you continue to mention that Becker's  store as Kathleen's route towards
Curtis Rd from Cresswell Dr.

You have given a reason ( somewhat) as to why you didn't use quotes from posting members..however, I also asked for post numbers..for the most part so posters will be able to determine the original wording themselves.  As you are aware, it only takes the misplacement of one single word to change the entire meaning of a post.



Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on November 18, 2010, 01:06:42 PM
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Creswell+Dr.+Trenton,+Ontario,+Canada&daddr=44.0967479,-77.5795343+to:44.1017721,-77.5752169+to:Curtis+Rd.+Trenton,+Ontario,+Canada&hl=en&geocode=FbXXoAIdmj1g-ylrvNvk4RXWiTEt6ICZpAK4MQ%3BFevcoAId8jpg-ylDyrPw4RXWiTGDll8ZZbGKqA%3BFYzwoAId0Etg-ylLfg7MCBbWiTHKVqMEaeIsXg%3BFcIZoQIdfJhg-ylpJU-Z9D3WiTFL0ovFUcDvxA&mra=dpe&mrcr=0&mrsp=1&sz=14&via=1,2&dirflg=w&sll=44.096154,-77.579355&sspn=0.018184,0.035791&ie=UTF8&ll=44.100838,-77.575579&spn=0.018183,0.035791&z=14 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Creswell+Dr.+Trenton,+Ontario,+Canada&daddr=44.0967479,-77.5795343+to:44.1017721,-77.5752169+to:Curtis+Rd.+Trenton,+Ontario,+Canada&hl=en&geocode=FbXXoAIdmj1g-ylrvNvk4RXWiTEt6ICZpAK4MQ%3BFevcoAId8jpg-ylDyrPw4RXWiTGDll8ZZbGKqA%3BFYzwoAId0Etg-ylLfg7MCBbWiTHKVqMEaeIsXg%3BFcIZoQIdfJhg-ylpJU-Z9D3WiTFL0ovFUcDvxA&mra=dpe&mrcr=0&mrsp=1&sz=14&via=1,2&dirflg=w&sll=44.096154,-77.579355&sspn=0.018184,0.035791&ie=UTF8&ll=44.100838,-77.575579&spn=0.018183,0.035791&z=14)

Not certain how this map will appear in the post or even it will appear at all!
Creswell Dr. begins at the edge of Hannah Park..east of point "A".  Seems though that without the house number Google seems unaware of where the street begins.  I didn't want to enter the house number for the privacy of the owners, whom ever thay may be.
There is a shorter walking route from point "A" to point "B"..this can be changed by dragging your cursor.  But this is the route given by Google and I have left it at that.  Reason being, it has been reported by a local poster that Kathleen was caught on a jewellery store's video.  If this is actual fact, that jewellery store would have been one of three and all located on Dundas St., in the downtown core and all quite close together.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on November 18, 2010, 07:23:25 PM
I really like that map :) it allows people to check out various routes :) Nice map :)

Thanks! However, it appears Google isn't all that it's cracked up to be..my gawd I had the worst time with that!  But it does show some sort of route that Kathleen could have taken after leaving the gathering on Creswell Dr..if one was walking.  However, I shouldn't be so hard on Google..it's the confusing name change of the city of Trenton..as in the heading of Kathleen's thread
"Quinte West"  RW put us on the real map public wise..otherwise who would have been able to figure it out?  I always wondered why the name of CFB Trenton was never changed to CFB Quinte West?  It has always seemed to me to be so confusing if one is not from the area..as if they may be in two separate locations.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on November 18, 2010, 08:09:22 PM
I have read you say you lived in Trenton as of about 7 years ago...moved from TO.

Lets make this VERY clear to you...I lived in Trenton for 16 years.  My Dr. was the coroner that was called to the scene. At that time he was the chief coroner.

I am sorry yet again to remind you to read more closely before you post or at the very least if you comment on something you ( think) I posted and in future please use the quote feature.
You are half correct..I moved here from Toronto..not 7 years ago as you stated..I have lived here long before Kathleen was murdered.

It's interesting you mentioned your doctor was the coroner and chief coroner at the scene Katheen's murder.  Actually... there has never been more there one coroner in Trenton..so I guess it's easy to have the distinction of being called " chief"
Currently, Dr. Donald Cooke, M.D. subs as well here as the coroner.  He is very, very  old.  Been the coroner here for years...you didn't mention the name in your post..are we speaking of the same?? 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Chris on November 20, 2010, 03:28:27 AM
Good idea. Let's enjoy a 1 week cooling off period on this thread. It is not possible everyone is going to agree on everything, and it is not possible that we are always going to be right. But it is possible to enjoy and respect other points of view.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on November 25, 2010, 02:55:36 PM
I totally agree with your comment, Chris. I did not even comment on any of these posts, because it just sounded like bullying on the schoolgrounds. We should all respect opinions of others. ??? ???
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: debbiec on November 28, 2010, 10:38:03 PM

Chris can we unlock this thread for posting again?
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Chris on November 30, 2010, 11:35:55 PM
yes unlocked. I'm looking forward to seeing everyone treating each others opinion with respect even if they disagree.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on December 01, 2010, 05:35:43 PM
Thanks Chris, great to see Kathleen's thread reopened.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on February 06, 2011, 07:47:32 PM
So very sad to observe Kathleen's thread has become so stagnant since it was locked down..  Almost as if stifled deliberately..jmo.
I have been reading back from day one of the thread..many posters who have info  posted here.  I am working on a compilation from info provided by the posters.
Will provide this as soon as possible.  In the meantime should anyone have anything to offer please do as Kathleen's family needs answers and Kathleen's murder needs justice to prevail.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: redbeard on April 09, 2011, 03:11:04 AM
Well I just got through reading all 26 pages of this thread trying to figure out the facts to maybe start a profile - but I noticed that all of Perdy's posts have disappeared.  What's the deal with that?

Some issues of extreme importance that haven't come up: WHEN did Kathleen leave the house were the gathering took place?  I understand it was sometime in the evening, but do we have an approximate time?  And how well travelled would the road she walked along be at that time of night?  Would there be cars passing by her for instance?  Did the relatives she was staying with live in the surrounding Middleton Park houses, or elsewhere?  Forgive me if I missed these answers, but they are crucial.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: jobo on April 09, 2011, 04:24:28 AM
Perdy has also been banned.   Her and Woodland basically were banned around the same time. 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: RubyRose on April 09, 2011, 08:04:45 AM
It will be good to see this thread get back on track as it appears now that it will.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: jobo on April 09, 2011, 08:15:21 AM
It is even hard to get a handle on the route she travelled.   I have read 2 different accounts.  One poster said it takes 10 minutes to walk from Cresswell through downtown Trenton to get to the other side of the bridge to the base/cut through Zellers plaza.   Another poster said it's a 25-30 minute walk.   They are saying the route is not dark and lonely and it's fairly well travelled.   Where Kathleen's body was found was in a grove (dark in there) but houses start half way down that block.  There is a few hundred meters that do not have street lights. 
Kathleen was living with relatives on the base.   I cannot find what time Kathleen left the house party/gathering.   I read that she was offered a ride, but wasn't ready to leave yet. 
The very first article on this thread called the scene National Defense property Canadian Forces Base Trenton......but then others have said it was NOT Military property at the time.    Of course, I had been questioning surveillance and patrols IF it was base property, but I gather it wasn't.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Seeking the Truth on April 09, 2011, 12:56:22 PM
Too bad Perdy's posts are gone.  I remember she seemed to have a lot of firsthand knowledge back when the murder happened.  I believe her daughter was a friend of Kathleen's.  Or she was a friend of a friend. 

I have also been reviewing the first pages of this thread.  You had people who had lived in Trenton and worked on the base posting and members attacked the information they provided.   :o  I am not sure why this is, but maybe it was because they didn't give you the answers you wanted?  Perdy got banned, Another Trentonian says they are a guest (don't know what this means), and Golanvern stopped posting.  Fortunately Another Trentonian's and Golanvern's posts are still there to check for information.  I don't know that their information would be 100% accurate, but these were people who had direct knowledge of the base and how it worked, the Trenton area and were around when the Kathleen Macvicar murder happened.  Why would you not believe them?  My suggestion is to go back and read their posts and maybe you will find some answers. 

Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: redbeard on April 09, 2011, 03:25:45 PM
Perdy has also been banned.   Her and Woodland basically were banned around the same time.

Strange though.  I can still read Woodland's posts.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: redbeard on April 09, 2011, 03:31:33 PM
Jobo - Finding the time she left the party I think really is a key bit of info that we need to know.  I mean, it could be anywhere from 9 pm to 5 in the morning when you think about it.  Wasn't a relative of Kathleen's posting on this site for awhile.  I'm sure they would know.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Seeking the Truth on April 09, 2011, 04:40:35 PM
Perdy has also been banned.   Her and Woodland basically were banned around the same time.

Strange though.  I can still read Woodland's posts.

Chris banned Perdy and deleted her posts.  By the time he banned Woodland, he had decided not to delete posts anymore as it tampered with the continuity in the threads.  At least this is my view of how it happened.
 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: jobo on April 09, 2011, 06:06:29 PM
Redbeard:   Reply #291 has the time Kathleen left the gathering as being 10:30 pm.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Seeking the Truth on April 09, 2011, 06:33:57 PM
Also check post #302 and #307 regarding whether the property was civilian or belonged to the base.  Golanvern lived there and should be a credible source.

Edited to add, also #300.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: redbeard on April 09, 2011, 06:47:22 PM
Thanks Jobo, so we can then assume she confronted her attacker sometime between 10:30 and 11:15 ?  I have also seen mention that the body was moved.  Is there a credible source for this, because the way I am envisioning the murder right now, I would say it is a one or two crime scene deal, not a three parter.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on April 11, 2011, 04:46:20 PM
There seems not much here accuracy wise meaning links as when Kathleen left the gathering of friends on Creswell Dr. Just folks early on in this thread who knew Kathleen and posted. I am not even certain the time she left the gathering/party has ever been established, for a certainty???
And there is has been this continual mention regarding where Kathleen's remains were discovered.
Much to the chagin of the odd few, her remains were discovered, June 15, on DND property.
Kathleen's murder is on the OPP website and clearly and most certainly mentions her remains were located on DND property.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: redbeard on April 11, 2011, 05:51:04 PM
With that little reliable info, I am hesitant to do a profile.  My gut instinct is that somebody living in the vicinity of the park, either military or non-military, got into a fight with his wife or gf and stormed out of the house.  Alcohol was probably involved at some juncture, and he decided to take out his anger on a surrogate woman.  When he saw Kathleen walking home alone, he just kind of exploded.  I don't think he would have committed the murder other than where the body was found.  It just doesn't make sense.  Why pick a woman up at one spot, take her somewhere else to rape and murder her, and then bring her back to the area you took her from?  An organized offender might, pick her up in Trenton, take her somewhere else to commit the rape and murder, and then dump the body in a third isolated location away from the town to make the body harder to find.  But returning to Trenton to deposit the corpse?  Doesn't make much sense does it?
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Seeking the Truth on April 11, 2011, 06:14:28 PM
It doesn't make sense.  If he dumped her there, wouldn't he have to bring her in a vehicle, which means more chance on someone seeing him dumping her body there?  If he knew it was military property then coming with a vehicle and lugging a body out of it would be taking a big chance that some police force would be going by, either the military police or the city police.  Would there have been tire tracks in the grass? Especially since apparently it was due for a cutting so might have been longer. 

But then you never know -- what if someone stopped and gave her a ride somewhere along the way - maybe even someone she knew.  Or she mentioned she was going to the PMQs.  Could they have taken her somewhere, assaulted and killed her, driven back to the route she was taking and dumped her on the edge of the woods. 

Or could she have left the house on Creswell and started heading home but went somewhere else instead?  Maybe she didn't tell anyone she was going to make another stop.  Maybe something happened at that stop.  Or on her way home from it.  I mean all her friends knew was she left their place at about 10 p.m..  It is always possible she didn't head straight home but didn't tell anyone her plans.  Maybe that was her reason for not taking a ride.  Could she have plans to meet someone else?

So many different scenarios. 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on April 11, 2011, 06:50:52 PM
A lot could be determined if somebody knew her very private matters.  As far as a vehicle being spotted dumping her poor young remains, it wouldn't be given any special notice if it was a vehicle that "belonged in that area".
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Seeking the Truth on April 11, 2011, 06:57:20 PM
I wonder though, lost.  Off the road at night?  I would think that it wouldn't attract attention if it was dark enough not to be seen.  But if you could see it, wouldn't someone going by be curious about what was going on?  Even if it was a military vehicle, which I think you are probably implying. 

I agree, if she confided in a good friend in advance, it might have helped. 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: redbeard on April 11, 2011, 07:03:41 PM
All good points.  The East Coasters I know are also much more likely to take rides from strangers than in other parts of Canada.  There is something of a hitchhiking culture out there.  Do you agree, Lostlinganer?
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on April 11, 2011, 08:09:42 PM
not so much now Redbeard... even here it's gotten pretty bad... mostly, there's hardly anybody who doesn't have transportation.  ...unless of course they've been clubbing... then they walk, and actually feel safe because they've been drinking.  The worst about Eastcoasters is that they trust everybody until they don't have a reason to trust them anymore.  ....not a good thing, but we seem to have to learn everything the hard way.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on April 14, 2011, 03:10:14 PM

I am wondering if someone with far more computer savvy skills would be able to bring up a map showing the PMQ's along Curtis Rd and as well Middleton Park, where Kathleen's remains were found. 
It's DND property, Curtis Rd is shown on Google Maps, however, not the out branches of DND streets.  Perhaps the city of Trenton owns Curtis Rd..but the streets branching off to the left and right are DND and this is why they do not appear?
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: MilitaryBrat/Civvie on June 09, 2011, 09:02:11 AM
Hi, I'm new here and just wanted to post this excerpt from the 8 Wing Trenton Splash page

    Splash Page Notices
Important Notice
Memorial Service in memory of Kathleen MacVicar
The Military Family Resource Centre and the Base Chapel will be holding a
memorial service On Monday June 13th, 2011 to commemorate the 10th anniversary
of the death of Kathleen MacVicar at 6:30 pm.
The Memorial Service will be held at the Memorial site on Curtis Road (rain
site: Base Chapel), and will be followed by a candle-light walk to the Chapel
where a reception will be hosted by the MFRC. Jim Craig will officiate the
memorial service.
We would like to extend an invitation to the community to join us on the
evening.
If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact Audrey Gillis at
613-955-0902 or Ashlee Allen at 613-955-8891
Poster: English version.jpg

OPI: Audrey Gillis @ 613-955-0902 or Ashlee 613-955-8891
Phone: n/a

Notice ID: 1893
Notice Entered On: 7 Jun 11
Notice Approved On: 7 Jun 11
Notice Expires On: 13 Jun 11
Notice Approved By: Capt Jones
Notice Approver Phone: 2041
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: MilitaryBrat/Civvie on June 09, 2011, 09:57:31 AM
Someone asked for a map.  Click on the link, give it a couple moments for the map to adjust (it will automatically zoom in).  The orange marker/man is pointing to the location she was found and the picture above the map shows the sattelite(sp) view.  You can see the cross in the background.  If you zoom out on the map you will get a better idea of general location in relation to the City.

Notice that there is only about 300 m between where the Trenton houses on Dixon Dr and Stella Cres end and the first houses of the PMQ's on Rivers and Lawrence drive start.  Not exactly a huge space, but the trees obscure most of the view.   However, as a long time resident of Trenton who lived for 11 years (from 1989 till 2000) in two different places where my comute to work (on the Base) was along Dixon Dr and Curtis, I have to say it is not as quiet and isolated as it may look.  A lot of people drive through there to avoid going through the main street (Dundas) on the East end of town.  There always seemed to be some traffic.  I find it hard to believe that anyone from the area, would choose that spot to sexually assault and kill someone.  I think the body was probably dumped.  I don't know whether that has been determined yet or not.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=CFB+Trenton,+Quinte+West,+Ontario&aq=0&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=24.527725,78.837891&ie=UTF8&hq=CFB+Trenton,+Quinte+West,+Ontario&ll=44.110761,-77.562318&spn=0.0057,0.05476&z=15&layer=c&cbll=44.110748,-77.562324&panoid=_QekJjvnpXgBMBa7m5Faow&cbp=11,139.28,,0,1.55
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: MilitaryBrat/Civvie on June 12, 2011, 02:08:28 AM

This sounds very interesting.  I wish I didn't live so far away, as this is something I would like to attend.  Hard to believe it has been ten years....

It is hard to believe it's been ten years, so sad.

When Mark Allan Pomeroy was arrested for the murder of Jennifer Boczylo (2002 I believe), I had high hopes that he would be connected to Kathleen's murder because his Mother was living in the area (very close) to where Kathleen was found.  The rumour was that he was living with his Mother at the time, but I don't know if that's true or not.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on June 12, 2011, 04:33:39 PM
MilitaryBrat, I do hope they have investigated Pomeroy for the murder of Kathleen. It is very hard for us to believe that it is ten years since her death. I do hope that they are not closing this file and are keeping it active. There are so many unsolved killings across Canada of young women, it is sickening. More has to be done and people have to report what they know, that is the only way these cases will be solved. :( :( :( :( :( :(
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: MilitaryBrat/Civvie on June 12, 2011, 04:54:12 PM
MilitaryBrat, I do hope they have investigated Pomeroy for the murder of Kathleen. It is very hard for us to believe that it is ten years since her death. I do hope that they are not closing this file and are keeping it active. There are so many unsolved killings across Canada of young women, it is sickening. More has to be done and people have to report what they know, that is the only way these cases will be solved. :( :( :( :( :( :(

At the time Pomeroy was arrested, a close friend and I were discussing it and she's the one who told me where his Mother lived.  She knows her,  but I can't remember how she knows her.  My friend thought it over for a couple of days and then called the Police.  The police told my friend that they were aware of it and were investigating, but we never heard anything further.

I didn't follow the details of the case closely so I don't remember if DNA evidence was found on Kathleen's body, I just assumed it was since she was sexually assaulted.   If DNA evidence was found, you would think it would be fairly simple to match to Pomeroy, or not.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on June 13, 2011, 02:26:26 PM
Just to clarify and to avoid more confusion; Pomeroy was behind bars when Kathleen was murdered....it is well known and the link is posted here... In regard to rape/sexual assault...there are other methods than the norm we initially think of...
Kathleen was murdered a decade ago today and still no arrest.
That's nice there was a service on base for Kathleen, what a lovely token gesture.  The least the military can do as far as I am concerned. 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on June 13, 2011, 04:58:52 PM
I believe they have a service every year as the remembrance date. Very sad for the family that this case has not been solved. And thanks Am, for giving us the news about Pomeroy, I guess we forgot about him being in jail at the time.  :o :o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on June 14, 2011, 03:31:48 PM
Cape..no this is the very first Base service at least that has been published by the media.  In other years just Kathleen's mother came and met with a local journalist and discussed the case and commented that the base was less than forthcoming regarding info but the OPP were great.
Nothing in the local paper last year.  Waiting at the moment to see if the local paper, the Trentonian writes something.  If so, I will post the link.

Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: jellybean on June 14, 2011, 04:29:13 PM
Am do you think that it was a military person who did this?  As you know, I am an ex military brat, however Trenton is a base "like no other" in our country.  It is a main hub of dispatch of not only equipment but also of personnel.
(I always felt secure on the bases that I lived at - however on passing through the Trenton base, it was like no other that I had seen before)

Overnight stop overs at Trenton with personnell passing through to their postings,  I think would be common??
Any military out there that can confirm the fluidity of this base?

PEACE
JB
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Seeking the Truth on June 14, 2011, 06:07:42 PM
Cape..no this is the very first Base service at least that has been published by the media.  In other years just Kathleen's mother came and met with a local journalist and discussed the case and commented that the base was less than forthcoming regarding info but the OPP were great.
Nothing in the local paper last year.  Waiting at the moment to see if the local paper, the Trentonian writes something.  If so, I will post the link.

This is the third memorial service.  There was one on the 1st anniversary and on the 5th.  At least according to the article in the Intelligencer which is here:  http://www.intelligencer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3169800

Just curious, amIam, did you go to the service?  It sounds like it wasn't well attended -- the article says a small group.  You have stated many times that you live in Trenton and I thought that since you have always taken a special interest in this case, that you might have gone.

Also I thought that someone had pointed out earlier in this thread that the reason why the military are not forthcoming in this case is there is nothing to tell her.  The case was taken over by the OPP and they are the ones leading the investigation.  What would the military have to tell Mrs. MacVicar?  Even if the OPP keep them apprised of any new developments, it is not up to the military to reveal them.  This would be up to the OPP. 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on June 15, 2011, 02:53:56 PM
Grim anniversary marked in Trenton
Kathleen MacVicar was murdered in 2001
By Emily Mountney
Posted 1 day ago
Emily Mountney

Trentonian

It's been 10 years since the body of Kathleen MacVicar was found in the woods, sexually assaulted and stabbed numerous times.

Yet the passage of times has done nothing to lessen the pain, confusion and loss affecting her family.

A small group of community members and MacVicar's relatives gathered at the CFB Trenton base chapel Monday night to remember the young woman whose murder remains unsolved.

Her body was found in a wooded area near Curtis Road in Middleton Park at CFB Trenton June 15, 2001. A white cross stands on the western edge of the park near the location her body was found.

"We can't deny the presence of evil in this world. To me, the lowest form of evil is for a man to abuse what is in the life of a lady and then to put that life to death," said Rev. Jim Craig, who officiated the service.

"A life that once had so much promise is no longer with us. A life that expected, some day, to be married, to have children, have a career, to be able to give back to the world... is all gone."

Originally from Cape Breton, the then 19-year-old was staying with relatives in the Private Married Quarters (PMQs) near Middleton Park.

She was last seen alive leaving a friend's residence in Trenton two days before her body was found.

She was working for Stream in Belleville, where her cousin Lorna Ford said she discovered a new liking for computers.


"Kathleen will never be forgotten, her memory will outlive us all," said Ford.

Ford described MacVicar as a girl who excelled in school, loved to swim and had a witty personality who always kept those close to her "on their toes."

"You never had to wonder what she was thinking, because she always spoke her mind."

Ford said family meant the world to MacVicar.

The memorial service was organized by the social workers at the Military Family Resource Centre.

"For those of us who didn't know Kathleen, we can't grieve to the same depth of the family, but rest assured, we share with them in their sorrow," said Craig.

Susan Stoddard, parent education and emergency respite childcare co-ordinator for the MFRC, said she remembers hearing about MacVicar's death 10 years ago.

"We asked the relatives if it would be OK if we had a memorial, we asked for their blessing."

Memorials were also held on the one-year anniversary and five-year anniversary.

"Kathleen is sadly missed," said Ford. "On behalf of her family, thanks goes out to all of the people of Trenton."

The OPP investigation, dubbed ‚ "Project Shadow", is continuing and investigators have appealed for the public's help. Officers are looking for new information that may help them identify MacVicar's murderer.

The provincial government and the City of Quinte West are continuing to offer a combined reward in the amount of $75,000 for information leading to the arrest and conviction of the person or persons responsible for the MacVicar's murder.

Anyone with information is asked to contact Det.-Const. Scott Leblanc of the Quinte West OPP at 613-392-3561, OPP Communications at 1-888-310-1122 or CrimeStoppers at 1-800-222-8477
http://www.trentonian.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3170081
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on June 15, 2011, 03:17:46 PM
Am do you think that it was a military person who did this?  As you know, I am an ex military brat, however Trenton is a base "like no other" in our country.  It is a main hub of dispatch of not only equipment but also of personnel.
(I always felt secure on the bases that I lived at - however on passing through the Trenton base, it was like no other that I had seen before)

Overnight stop overs at Trenton with personnell passing through to their postings,  I think would be common??
Any military out there that can confirm the fluidity of this base?

PEACE
JB

Hey JB I have read both from you and from many others the reference to " military brat" or "civie"...I have always wondered the difference..are military brats and civies considered different people in the former military world?

I have known a number of individuals from other provinces who were posted here and couldn't wait to leave.  And yes, overnight stops  were and still are common.

   
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Seeking the Truth on June 15, 2011, 03:44:09 PM
Am do you think that it was a military person who did this?  As you know, I am an ex military brat, however Trenton is a base "like no other" in our country.  It is a main hub of dispatch of not only equipment but also of personnel.
(I always felt secure on the bases that I lived at - however on passing through the Trenton base, it was like no other that I had seen before)

Overnight stop overs at Trenton with personnell passing through to their postings,  I think would be common??
Any military out there that can confirm the fluidity of this base?

PEACE
JB

Hey JB I have read both from you and from many others the reference to " military brat" or "civie"...I have always wondered the difference..are military brats and civies considered different people in the former military world?

I have known a number of individuals from other provinces who were posted here and couldn't wait to leave.  And yes, overnight stops  were and still are common.


That's strange.  I know for a fact that Trenton is one of the most popular postings, and commonly requested.  I even know people from other parts of Canada who have elected to retire there.  Of course, the people who don't like something are usually the loudest in their comments.  So they would stand out in their complaints.  That is why it is important to also comment when you are happy with something. 

I do agree that there would be a large number of personnel passing through Trenton on various missions.   Yes, it could be someone who was passing through on the way to another location.  However, considering that Trenton is just off the 401 and the amount of traffic that passes by every day, there is as much chance that it could be a highway traveller who commited the murder.  Or worse yet, someone who is a citizen of the community and is still residing in the area. 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on June 16, 2011, 01:15:39 PM
Smoothie, a good question. And also this case should have been a very high profile case. There should have been extra police brought in to help find Kathleen's killer. This is another case that should be gone over with a fine tooth comb, a lot of care should be done to bring this case back into the limelight and get it solved. Does anyone think that this person could have moved out of the area, maybe to Orangeville. There are two violent cases in that area and these all could be connected. I wonder have the police been in contact and checked DNA from the crime scenes and tried to compare them. A lot of violent cases, and these are not large cities. The Povince of Ontario has to step up to the plate and get these crimes solved. Russell Williams was caught. So why was he focused on and we can't find these other killers. The same kind of investigaton must go forward, more has to be done to get justice for Sonia and Kathleen.  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Seeking the Truth on June 16, 2011, 03:30:28 PM
Wasn't she living with her aunt and uncle?  I would think they would be questioned. 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on June 17, 2011, 05:41:44 PM
I'm pretty sure that they were questioned about Kathllen's friends and who she was usually hanging out with, that would certainly be normal procedures, I would assume. :( :( :( :( :( :( :(
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on June 29, 2011, 02:16:11 PM
Cape, I would imagine Kathleen's Uncle Bob and his spouse were questioned..being as the Uncle was military and lived a stone's throw away from the discovery of Kathleen's remains..not certain as to whether he was questioned by the DND or some member of the former Trenton police force. 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: jellybean on June 29, 2011, 08:27:43 PM
Quote:
Hey JB I have read both from you and from many others the reference to " military brat" or "civie"...I have always wondered the difference..are military brats and civies considered different people in the former military world?

I have known a number of individuals from other provinces who were posted here and couldn't wait to leave.  And yes, overnight stops  were and still are common.

   
[/quote]

Just like I thought Am, Trenton base is like no other!! Only passed through there and I didn't like it.
Thank you for answering.  I can always depend upon a straightforward answer from you. I would hope that other bases are not the same - re: murders
Glad that you know service people, and that you see them as persons - not in what they do.

PEACE
JB

 ( ex military brat) (can't help it, if I grew up in that culture no more than a policemen's, or firefighter's daughter - or a coalminers daugher)
It is what it is. We were shunned as kids by civilians, thus we stuck together - simple.  Believe it or not, it still is the case in 2011 - even considering our soldiers are presently at war. Predjudice still prevails with their wives and their children. Must say,  great strides have been made, but there is much room for improvement. I know,  as I am quite involved with young military familes today, by way of friendship - so sad - and yes, they are families raising their kids like any other, often the difference is that their Dad is away - thus they have to stick together.   They are a small family unit living away from any family support system, eg. Grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins. It is the nature of the beast, however attitudes are changing and it is about time.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on July 03, 2011, 05:18:40 PM
Quote:
Hey JB I have read both from you and from many others the reference to " military brat" or "civie"...I have always wondered the difference..are military brats and civies considered different people in the former military world?

I have known a number of individuals from other provinces who were posted here and couldn't wait to leave.  And yes, overnight stops  were and still are common.

   

Just like I thought Am, Trenton base is like no other!! Only passed through there and I didn't like it.
Thank you for answering.  I can always depend upon a straightforward answer from you. I would hope that other bases are not the same - re: murders
Glad that you know service people, and that you see them as persons - not in what they do.

PEACE
JB

 ( ex military brat) (can't help it, if I grew up in that culture no more than a policemen's, or firefighter's daughter - or a coalminers daugher)
It is what it is. We were shunned as kids by civilians, thus we stuck together - simple.  Believe it or not, it still is the case in 2011 - even considering our soldiers are presently at war. Predjudice still prevails with their wives and their children. Must say,  great strides have been made, but there is much room for improvement. I know,  as I am quite involved with young military familes today, by way of friendship - so sad - and yes, they are families raising their kids like any other, often the difference is that their Dad is away - thus they have to stick together.   They are a small family unit living away from any family support system, eg. Grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins. It is the nature of the beast, however attitudes are changing and it is about time.
[/quote]

Hey JB, I am quoting your quote from me, however, yours hasn't taken as such.  I have same problem at times and can't figure why.

Thanks for the explanation, however, I am not certain as to why military people might/have felt shunned. 

I must say though that this base location is a totally different world, perhaps it has much to do with the fact so many other close by communities depend so heavily upon the base employment here.  And is very far reaching in so many areas.   

In regard to Kathleen's murder, it has always been my personal opinion, there are many both civie and military who could have/should have offered info but it is a case of keep one's mouth shut to keep one's job.  Then when out of the military contract/ or employment; things remain the same.

Kinda like what happens in Trenton, stays in Trenton. 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on July 05, 2011, 11:13:46 AM
Military men get away with quite a bit ....as long as not too many people are around when it happens.

An old post of yours Lost but well worth repeating.  I have always wondered if anything further developed in that case from way, way back.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: amIam on July 19, 2011, 02:16:09 PM
A very old newspaper article, however the most recent I have been able to obtain that mentions facts..which have not changed since Kathleen was murdered.
*************************
GLACE BAY - Colleen MacVicar has favourite memories of her daughter Kathleen, who was viciously murdered nearly nine years ago.
"She had tiny little hands and would put them on my shoulders," she recalled Tuesday.
"I remember the feel of that."
MacVicar said although the arrest of Col. Russell Williams, the base commander at CFB Trenton for two murders and two home invasions in the same area, does bring some hope for possible closure, the family is not getting their hopes up too high.
Williams has been charged in the murders of Jessica Lloyd, who went missing on Jan. 28 and whose body was found Monday, and the murder of Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, 38, who was killed in her home Nov. 25, as well as two counts of forcible confinement, break and enter, and sexual assault in relation to two home invasions in September.
In June 2001 Kathleen MacVicar, 19, was visiting her aunt and uncle at CFB Trenton, when she went missing. Three days later her body was found in a wooded section of the base. She had been stabbed multiple times and sexually assaulted. The case has never been solved.
"I have been here before, thinking we have resolved this in that respect, found the person we were looking for - someone to blame - but it has always fallen through," her mother said.
"Until the police tell me that without a shadow of a doubt that this is who they suspect killed Kathleen, then I am just going to wait and see. I am not getting my hopes up here."
Members of the Ontario Provincial Police contacted the MacVicar family Monday evening.
"The police told us they will be looking into it. They certainly haven't offered us any great hope, we are just waiting to see what is going on, to see if they can give us any information on whether he was even in Trenton at the time - they don't even know that yet.
"They just want us to be kept up in the loop."
MacVicar said it wasn't a heavily wooded area where her daughter was found, more like a thoroughfare.
"There was a street the school bus used and kids would be walking back and forth.
"She was probably 50 feet off the road, right where the grass ended and the woods would start. The guy who cuts the grass was actually the person who discovered her."
Every year, MacVicar travels to the area where her daughter's body was found.
"I go every year at the time she was missing. She went missing on the 13th and was found on the 15th. It is my personal thing, she was alone during that time so I want to be there," she said.
"It doesn't make much sense, but it makes sense to me as her mother."
MacVicar said she has a great relationship with the OPP, however the military has not been co-operative.
"They have been very unforthcoming and closed-mouthed. It makes you very suspicious."
Sgt. Kristine Rae, media relations for the OPP for the eastern region, said the MacVicar homicide has always been an open investigation.
"There has always been investigators assigned to the case. There is still a $50,000 reward posted on our website for information pertaining to that"
Rae said the investigation on Williams is currently focused on the four cases before the court - two homicides and two home invasions.
"Through that investigation we will be looking at other unsolved crimes and reviewing them to see if there are any similarities between those incidents and these ones. The MacVicar homicide hasn't been reviewed yet, but it definitely will be to see if there are any similarities."
She confirmed the cases are all in the same "geographical area."
2nd Lt. Vincent Bedard of CFB Trenton confirmed the Canadian Armed Forces is assisting with the OPP investigation.
When asked if the MacVicar murder was being looked at as part of the Williams case, he said information about all postings in Williams' career is being researched right now.
"That information will be released soon for investigation purposes."
Desiree Vassallo, spokesperson with the Cape Breton Regional Police Service, said at this point they have not received any contact from the OPP regarding the murder of MacVicar.
After MacVicar's death they only played a minimal role, she added.
"We liasoned between the OPP and the family, we helped them in meeting the family locally."
After the murder there was an outpouring of support from the community. Staff at the McKeen Street Tim Hortons outlet in Glace Bay where MacVicar had worked planted an oak tree and laid a plaque in her memory at Two Rivers Wildlife Park.

smontgomery@cbpost.com

Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on February 14, 2012, 06:37:50 PM
Are you saying they had a person in mind that committed this crime??? We all want justice for Kathleen, it is a long time and it seems like yesterday that Kathleen was murdered. We do hope that someone does keep Kathleen's name out there and that they do not forget her. :o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: jobo on February 15, 2012, 04:00:33 AM
barbara:  I always thought that Kathleen's killer lives on or very near the base.  Someone who is familiar with the base....either because he works there or lives close by.  And, that does not necessarily mean Military either (in my eyes).

44 Thousand population is not that big, the Cops need to dust off the files and get cracking.  I think they could solve this crime.  If they need help to solve it then they should reach out to other agencies.

Perhaps a letter to the Editor of the Trentonian before June 13 (anniversary) would be a good idea.  If you look at Frankie Jensen's thread, there was a wonderful article printed in the London paper, recently.  It reminds us this crime is UNsolved, and hopefully someone will pull through with a TIP.

Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on February 15, 2012, 11:19:33 AM
This should be paramount in the coming months to keep Kathleen's memory alive and get this case solved. There is a murderer walking around the streets of Belleville. Jobo, I believe also that the person lives close by to where Kathleen lives. I believe this person is young, I think anywhere's from 17 to 25. I am making this profile in my head. I think the person was high on drugs or alcohol that evening and is a person that possibly is out of control in other issues. I don't think he is a model citizen. I say the police should be looking at a person who have had little run-ins with the law there. Somebody knows someone who came home that night that was not acting right. Someone who the next day possibly did something unusual, started drinking more or just not acting normal. And if there is a person that has a gut feeling that someone committed this crime or you have any feelings of suspicion, please call crime stoppers and give your information or go to your local police, a detective that you trust and feel they would look into what information you have. :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: debbiec on December 04, 2012, 11:12:43 AM
I have been unable to find any new information in regard to Kathleen's murder. Her murder remains unsolved. 


Police offer $75,000 reward for information in MacVicar murder case

Written on June 15, 2011 by Jackie Vieira in Local News


Ten years ago today, police found the body of 19-year-old Kathleen MacVicar in a wooded area at CFB Trenton.

Quinte West OPP are still investigating her murder and today are offering a $75,000 reward for information leading to an arrest and conviction of the person or persons responsible for her death.

The investigation, dubbed “Project Shadow”, is continuing and investigators need the public’s help. Police are hoping someone will come forward with new information that may help identify her killer.

Anyone with information should call Detective Constable Scott Leblanc of the Quinte West OPP at 613-392-3561 or crime stoppers at 1-888-222-TIPS.

http://www.983flyfm.com/theflyfm/police-offer-75000-reward-for-information-in-macvicar-murder-case/ (http://www.983flyfm.com/theflyfm/police-offer-75000-reward-for-information-in-macvicar-murder-case/)

click to enlarge
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on December 05, 2012, 11:45:17 AM
I always believed the person lives close by to where Kathleen was staying and possibly could have been watching her movements. Knowing that she felt safe to walk alone in the evening, because most times in our area in Cape Breton, most people can walk home okay. The same as Sonia V., I believe her killer is in the neighbourhood and a bit of a split personality, someone with a temper and looks okay to some folks, the boy next door type, but has a dark side. Those two cases get to me.  :o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: forest on December 14, 2012, 10:12:54 PM
Someone could have dumped her body on the base to make it look like it was someone from military? Or perhaps it was military and its covered up :(
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: york3404 on December 19, 2012, 03:35:46 PM
I can not help but wonder, with the recent arrest of Mr. Russell William who served at Trenton and had a home in Trenton may have had something to do with this women. I am unsure if they have ever found all the women he had sexual relations with and later murdered. I do know he had scared the life out of other women who could not testify.  He was into younger women and an assortment of women to best of my knowledge. I urge the family and others to question him about this women specifically. It is unknown to best of knowledge all the women he may of killed.  This women seems to fit the profile of his victims. We can only hope they will be able to update all the women this man may have murdered.   
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Julia on February 10, 2013, 03:20:03 PM
I am wondering if Paul Alan Hachey has been ruled out in this crime?  Similar MO in the death of Sara Whitehead of North Bay, Ontario in 1997. 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on February 11, 2013, 03:32:02 PM
Julia, can you tell us the circumstances of the crime you are speaking of. I don't know if it's on this site or not. Would like to know the MO of the crime he has committed. Thanks. ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: jobo on February 12, 2013, 04:15:37 AM
Julia, I think that at the time of Kathleen's murder, Paul Hachey was already in jail for the murder of Sara Whitehead.  He was charged with Sara's murder while serving time for rape in Calgary.  He has committed several horrible and violent crimes.


Here's a snippet from:
http://solventmagazine.com/solventwp2/2010/02/07/north-bay-police-reports-89/?doing_wp_cron=1360663876.1828050613403320312500
 
September 27, 2001
 
Paul Alan Hachey, serving a life sentence for the murder of North Bay resident Sara Whitehead, appeared in North Bay court Thursday the 5th of July,2001, charged with an unsolved 1994 Toronto murder and three Edmonton sexual assaults, two of which occurred in 1988. Hachey had committed the North Bay murder on August 7th 1997. Sara Whitehead, a 20 year old university student, was walking home from a local mall when attacked and killed.Nobody investigating the matter at that time thought it would take 18 months to find the killer but he managed to evade police till a tip was received in 1999 identifying him as a suspect. Up to that point, police detectives had received hundreds of tips, had taken dozens of DNA samples,had eliminated over 700 suspects, but still had nobody charged.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who did he murder in Toronto in 1994....I wonder?
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Julia on February 15, 2013, 10:08:14 PM
Paul Alan Hachey as I understand it:

1988-rape in Edmonton
1994-murder of a homosexual man in Toronto
1997-rape in Edmonton
7 Aug 1997-murder of Sara Whitehead - North Bay, Ontario
Unknown date of rape and beating in Calgary
Hachey served time in Saskatchewan Pen-not sure when
Hachey appeared in court on 5 July 2001 in North Bay, Ontario

Sara-brutally murdered and body found on a footpath leading from a mall
Kathleen-brutally murdered and body found beside a wooded footpath, area, leading from Curtis Rd to      the Zellers Mall

Sara-20
Kathleen- 19

These details just caught my attention and I wasnt able to acertain if Hachey was in fact in custody on 13 June 2001.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Julia on February 15, 2013, 10:10:34 PM
Sorry, one more thing, Sara Whitehead's murder is probably not on here becasue her murder is solved.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: jobo on February 16, 2013, 08:11:50 AM
Am I reading this right?  I asked who Hachey murdered in 1994 in Toronto, since the article I copied said it was unsolved.....but...Julia what you posted says he murdered a homosexual man in Toronto in 1994.  Did he murder (at least) two people that year in Toronto or are we talking about the same one, I wonder?
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on February 16, 2013, 03:31:04 PM
...not here much anymore; but I drop by now and again reading whatever is on the board for that day.  :-[  ..this caught my eye today, so I thought I would add 2 cents worth:

Lee Mellor did extensive research on this guy for his book Cold North Killers.... Lee is a member on here (did a lot of commenting in the Jessop thread). ... anyone could message him... I just forget what his user ID is, but you would find it in the Jessop thread.  I also recall Hachey was convicted  due to the DNA; so I'll make a bet if police were to retrace his trail back in those two decades (80's and 90's.. maybe even earlier) ..and if they saved evidence from many of the cases along his old trail, he is probably responsible for way more than realized imo.  I saw a pic of him and he was some cold hearted looking punk for sure.  Sorry for throwing this in on Kathleen's thread... just couldn't resist.

Quote
DNA confirmed former Sturgeon Falls resident Paul Hachey as the suspect. He was serving time for raping a woman in Calgary when he pleaded guilty to the murder.

He was unknown to us prior to getting a hit in the (DNA) databank," says Det- Sgt. Barry Ramsay.

North Bay Nugget
http://www.northernnews.ca/2008/11/24/dna-solves-old-theft-cases-in-north-bay

and this from an ex-cop turned author:

Quote
The murder of 20-year-old Sara Whitehead was one of the city's highest profile and most difficult investigations. Her body was discovered in the bush off a well-used pathway behind Northgate Shopping Centre, Aug. 8, 1997.

A DNA profile of a man suspected as the killer was found, but a more accurate testing method later proved his innocence. And it wasn't until two years later police got a break in the case when investigators received a tip from an Ontario Provincial Police constable. An investigation involving DNA testing confirmed Paul Hachey as the suspect.

A former Sturgeon Falls resident, Hachey was serving time for raping a woman in Calgary when he pleaded guilty to the charge. He was sentenced to life in prison, not eligible for parole for 25 years. He later confessed to killing a Toronto man in 1994 and committing several rapes in Edmonton in 1988 and 1997.

http://www.nugget.ca/2008/09/13/this-is-the-city-

...and you can see a picture of Hachey on page 4-5 of the Nugget:
http://virtual.northbaynugget.ca/doc/North-Bay-Nugget/decade-in-review/2010021601/4.html#4
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Have faith on February 16, 2013, 03:44:51 PM
Lost--just to add--Lee Mellor is "redbeard".  He has done UNSUB profiles for some of the cases which can be found at http://mellortalksmurder.blogspot.com

Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on February 16, 2013, 03:53:16 PM
That's it Faith!   ..... Redbeard!
Gee, I wish I could get a "memory transplant". :-[

for anyone who would like to kick off their shoes tonight and relive that particular crime, here's the link to the docudrama.  OMG it is still hard to digest how many innocent beautiful people we have lost to murderers in this country.  No matter how much of it I am aware of, I still become "awed" by more revelations daily.  ...and it is unending. 

...anyway friends, here is the docudrama link:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1582280/
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on July 03, 2013, 09:50:13 AM
It is hard to believe it is now 12 years since Kathleen was murdered and still no suspects. I don't know if there was any memorial service held for her this year or not. I feel that someone that lived on the base or was visiting military may have gotten away with murder. There are always people moving in and out of the area and they could have been there for a short period and moved on. Kathleen was on her way home, so I don't believe she was killed elsewhere, I believe the crime happened in the place where she was walking. Someone was following her and that is what I believe happened.  I have visited Belleville and know where this area is, I have a family member that lives there. I sure hope that this case does not go unsolved. When a long period of time goes by with no arrests, it is very distressing for the family. They feel that it will never be solved. I think they should review all of the evidence they have with fresh eyes and see if anything was missed, a clue that they may have overlooked. RIP Kathleen and I still pray that your killer is caught. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: Ohwowsolong on September 28, 2013, 12:15:58 PM
I was friends with Kathleen for the short time she was in Ontario. She moved in with her aunt and uncle who were stationed in Trenton and she happened to live next to by two best friends. That's how she got integrated into our group. I remember she got the job at Stream and was doing well. The night she died, she left my other friends house and decided she rather walk home than take the taxi. It was about a 45 minute walk and most of us always took a taxi but Kathleen was very active and didn't like taking the lazy and easy way out.  Out of that 45 minute walk, her body was found just about 5 minutes away from her aunt and uncle's house. Chilling to know she was almost home.


I remember two days after that incident. I had to go to school and pick up prom tickets. My school was right by the base and I saw it all blocked off. We didn't know what was going on till later that night when we got called by the police and interrogated since we were the closest friends she had made. It was a life changing day and will always be inbeded in my mind. At 17, you are carefree and you don't think things like that will happen to you (She was 19 but we were all 17 the other 3 girls and I.)


The police kept coming back every summer, asking us back in for further questioning but we really had no idea about her life in Cape Breton or even the people she met while at Stream, so we were sadly never any help. I know they looked into different avenues, but for us we always and I still firmly believe it was someone from the base that was passing by Trenton and was long gone by the time the investigation started. Every urban legend twisted around by town folks was always about someone in the military.


For anyone reading this that knew Kathleen, one of the investigators told me during one of the interviews, while he couldn't give me details on how or what was used, he did tell me she didn't suffer. My interpretation of that is maybe she was knocked unconscious before anything happened, but it's brought me a little comfort thinking she at least didn't suffer or realize what was happening to her. :(
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: leonagleant on September 28, 2013, 05:42:41 PM
We can only hope the police were as thorough in questioning the military residents as they were in questioning Kathleen's teenage girlfriends.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on February 08, 2016, 01:50:00 PM
Long Gone, I do believe at the time that Kathleen was murdered, that there were a lot of military persons in the area from out of the country. It was suspected that it could have been someone that was passing through that committed this crime. There are other murders that are unsolved in that area. A random act of violence, possibly and the hardest thing to solve are those kinds of crimes. :o :o :o
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: jellybean on April 11, 2017, 01:12:43 PM


Bumping this one up!!

This is quite the mystery. So many posters from the area.  Great discriptions of the area at the time of Kathleen's death.  I can't stop reading it.
Someone did get away with murder.
We like to believe that justice will come in all murders.
Sadly, this is not always the case/jb

Hi to all writers
I too live in Trenton and I drive by the cross almost daily on my way to everywhere. I would like to think that I am not the only one that takes a look and says a sad hello to Kathleen. The stretch of woods where the cross is IS dark. Yes, there are houses on either side of this wooded area but that SPOT IS DARK. What the folks in NB don't realize is that the dividing line between the Base and Trenton is this woodsy park area. City houses, then dark woodsy area, then Base houses, Trenton on the west, the Base on the east. The Zellers that everyone is talking about is to the south of the cross on the other side of the woods. The woods are big enough to have deer and fox residing in them.
We will will not go anywhere in Trenton alone, day or night. I think we have had 5 local murders in 5 or 6 years. As far as I know only Kathleen is unsolved so that means the OPP do do their job with what they have. In fact...either Kathleen or another girl Jennifer (whom I used to babysit) were the first of the sad list that was started...Sarah Martin being one of them as well. These two murders were committed by men known by these young girls and they were caught. And, as someone on here mentioned, that is usually the case. I hope that the investigation is delving into who Kathleen was hanging around at the time but since the other two were solved I assume they are. It is all so sad and appalling....but no one has mentioned that Trenton and Belleville are considered the drug capitals of Ontario...not a word of a lie. Was Kathleen robbed as well? Money for drugs or booze could be an issue here too just as easily as someone from the Base being involved but we won't know until we do know. I really believe the police are doing their job..sometimes it just does not happen quickly and I am sure they are upset about that too, they know what people are thinking and saying...but rest assured they did get the other two guys. I sure hope it gets solved soon as everyone does here in this area. And yes, Kathleen's simple white cross is quite visible for all to see and yes, her name does keep appearing in our local paper...maybe it is only on the anniversary but ask anyone in this area and we all know her name and what happened to her.
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on May 11, 2017, 02:49:56 PM
I too always think about Kathleen's case, because she is a Cape Bretoner and we were all upset to hear of her being murdered while staying with friends in that area. I have family members who are living in Belleville at the time and my sister attended her vigil which they had for her some time ago. It is very hard to believe that so many years have gone by since this happened, it seems like a year or two and here we are into 16 years since this crime.  I do remember the facts of other outsiders being in the area at that time, they were related to the military. Apparently they were there for military exercises and it was felt maybe it was someone who did just commit a crime and they were flying out of there the next day. It almost seems that is the case, because it is very unusual that someone did not come forward with information.  By now someone would not have been able to keep this a secret.  I would ask anyone who is in that area and has any knowledge of this crime, please contact the police or crime stoppers and give your information. Her family wants the person brought to justice and just ask why you would take this young woman's life.  Thoughts and prayers to Kathleen's family and we all hope for justice in this matter. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on October 23, 2017, 10:12:27 PM
http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/mobile/police-offer-75k-reward-to-solve-macvicar-slaying-1.657759  time to bump this thread up



Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: lostlinganer on October 24, 2017, 04:39:05 PM
God love her heart;

Whoever did this to her might think they are safe from paying for their crime..... but when they least expect it, maybe, they will realize they are trapped in their own guilt.  Kathleen's spirit is free, but her killer/s will be tormented by the reality of what they did and what they are.... until eventually, karma kicks in and reels them in....  takes them!!! 
Title: Re: Kathleen MacVicar - June 13, 2001 - Age 19 - Murdered - Quinte-West
Post by: capeheart on November 19, 2017, 05:40:47 PM
So glad they haven't forgotten Kathleen and that they did publish her murder and reward in their news story. :o :o :o :o