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Listing Of Unsolved Murders & Missing People In Canada => Ontario Unsolved Murders & Missing People => Toronto => Topic started by: Desespere on August 05, 2008, 07:48:48 PM

Title: Erin Gilmour - December 20th, 1983 - Age 22 - Murdered - Toronto
Post by: Desespere on August 05, 2008, 07:48:48 PM
Erin Gilmour
Age: 22
COD: Stabbed
DOB:
Date last seen: December 20th, 1983
Location last seen: Toronto, ON
Date found: December 20th, 1983
Location found: Toronto, ON

Erin Gilmour  - December 20th, 1983 - Age 22 - Murdered - Toronto - Erin was found murdered in her apartment on Hazelton Ave. in Toronto's ritzy Yorkville neighbourhood. She had been bound to her bed and stabbed several times, with one knife thrust piercing her heart, an autopsy later found. On the night of her murder, Gilmour finished work at a clothing store beneath her flat and went upstairs to wait for a male friend, Anthony Munk, to pick her up to go to a cocktail party; police theorized she opened her door absent-mindedly, expecting Munk, but finding her killer instead. Munk found his friend's body when he arrived at 9:30 p.m. Gilmour had received obscene and threatening phone calls in the days prior to her murder, but police were unable to trace them.
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2326675
Title: Re: Erin Gilmour - December 20th, 1983 - Age 22 - Murdered ? Toronto
Post by: Chris on November 19, 2008, 12:03:18 AM
Thanks Des, I added that other case. That is quite odd to have 2 cases linked, but none since and none before! I hope the DNA gets a match one day.

Glad you are doing great, it was so nice to see you stop in.
Title: Re: Erin Gilmour - December 20th, 1983 - Age 22 - Murdered ? Toronto
Post by: Shwa on December 15, 2008, 01:32:21 PM
http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/homicide/case/6

"Gilmour had received obscene and threatening phone calls in the days prior to her murder, but police were unable to trace them."

So, if we assume that the caller and the killer are on in the same, then he (assuming it is a he) somehow got her number AND knew where she lived.  I would presume that one way or another, the killer knew Erin one way or another.

The previous August, Susan Tice was killed by the same person (as determined by DNA).  There is a 10 min drive between each residence (or a 40 min walk).

http://www.mapquest.com/maps?1c=Toronto&1s=ON&1a=Hazelton&2c=Toronto&2s=ON&2a=Grace

Other that proximity, there doesn't seem to be any connecting factors with regard to the two women - different ages, different economic or social conditions, different hair colour for what it is worth.

But I do wonder if there is a connection, that it is through 'Robins Knits.'
Title: Re: Erin Gilmour - December 20th, 1983 - Age 22 - Murdered ? Toronto
Post by: Shwa on December 16, 2008, 07:38:38 AM
Erin Gilmour lived and worked in Yorkville - a very high end neighbourhood in downtown Toronto:

http://www.torontoneighbourhoods.net/regions/toronto_central/15_overview.html

Susan Tice lived in Bickford Park, Little Italy.  Nice family type neighbourhoods:

http://www.torontoneighbourhoods.net/regions/toronto_downtown/18_homes.html


Title: Re: Erin Gilmour - December 20th, 1983 - Age 22 - Murdered ? Toronto
Post by: Shwa on December 16, 2008, 08:38:33 AM
Just thinking aloud...

Halfway between Erin & Susans homes going along Bloor St you pass Brunswick Avenue.  Two blocks up from Bloor along Brunswick is Wells St & Jan Sibelius Park where Sharin Morningstar Keenan was kidnapped and murdered in late Jan 1983.

The neighbourhood is known as the Annex and has completely changed over from low income rooming houses to something more affluent oriented today.

http://www.torontoneighbourhoods.net/regions/toronto_central/04_overview.html

However, the suspect in the Keenan murder, Melvin Howe has not been seen since late Jan 1983.
Title: Re: Erin Gilmour - December 20th, 1983 - Age 22 - Murdered ? Toronto
Post by: Shwa on December 16, 2008, 09:47:57 AM
On Monday, July 12th, 1982, on her 21st birthday, Claudia Geburt was viciously stabbed to death in a second-floor sitting room of her rented house on Leslie St., six doors south of Dundas St. Her fianc? found Geburt?s nude, blood-spattered body facedown on the floor when he called on her mid-afternoon.

Peter Arthur Clarke, 23 of Leslie St. was charged with theft and posession of stoeln property in connection to two break-ins at Geburts residence in June 1982 where $7,000 of missing stereo and camera equipment went missing.

Dundas and Leslie is about a 15 minute drive to Erin Gilmour's.

Dundas St is a very long Toronto St that runs roughly south parallel to Bloor on the west side of the DVP.

The interesting notes is that the victim was stabbed to death in her home and there was also someone charged with break-ins similar to the other cases.


 
Title: Re: Erin Gilmour - December 20th, 1983 - Age 22 - Murdered ? Toronto
Post by: Chris on December 17, 2008, 12:30:43 AM
This is all interesting. I do think the MO part is why I think police probably know who and are just short on proof.

Very very good analysis there, since I do not know Toronto too well, it does help to understand.

Quote
The interesting notes is that the victim was stabbed to death in her home and there was also someone charged with break-ins similar to the other cases

If the police mention that, there is a reason.
Title: Re: Erin Gilmour - December 20th, 1983 - Age 22 - Murdered ? Toronto
Post by: Shwa on December 17, 2008, 06:40:34 AM
I am looking around other sources to sift through similar crimes in the area.  There seems to be a few more that I will post when I get a chance. 

These downtown and centre town parts of Toronto were under-going a sort of urban renewal process in the early 80's.  I am also looking for material that might give us an idea of what those areas were like during that time period, any historical data that points to the Dundas East and Bloor corridors.  For instance, if there was heavy construction going on at the time, the perpetrator could have been employed in the construction industry.  That sort of thing...
Title: Re: Erin Gilmour - December 20th, 1983 - Age 22 - Murdered ? Toronto
Post by: Chris on December 19, 2008, 03:23:58 AM
Quote
instance, if there was heavy construction going on at the time, the perpetrator could have been employed in the construction industry.

That is a good idea.
Title: Re: Erin Gilmour - December 20th, 1983 - Age 22 - Murdered ? Toronto
Post by: Spartacus on January 21, 2009, 07:27:47 PM
So, if we assume that the caller and the killer are on in the same, then he (assuming it is a he) somehow got her number AND knew where she lived.  I would presume that one way or another, the killer knew Erin one way or another.
Other than proximity, there doesn't seem to be any connecting factors with regard to the two women -
The phone number was unlisted, according to the Toronto Star visual archives online. How did he get the number?
Both women had recently moved into this area. Erin had moved in 2 months before from Orchard Park Blvd. Both had also just returned from a vacation.
I could find no information on Susan Tice when I searched her name in the archive.
Title: Re: Erin Gilmour - December 20th, 1983 - Age 22 - Murdered ? Toronto
Post by: mauvelilac on January 22, 2009, 12:31:25 PM
Quote
The phone number was unlisted, according to the Toronto Star visual archives online. How did he get the number?
It would be easy enough to get an unlisted number if you were a friend of a friend of a friend that works for Bell.
Title: Re: Erin Gilmour - December 20th, 1983 - Age 22 - Murdered - Toronto
Post by: Shwa on August 31, 2009, 06:17:19 AM
From today's Toronto Star  (http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/688609)

Two women linked by serial killer

Aug 31, 2009 04:30 AM
Robyn Doolittle
Staff Reporter

Erin Gilmour's mind was likely elsewhere as she hurried to close up that night. Her boyfriend would be by soon to take her out for dinner. Maybe Chinese food – her favourite.

Through the Yorkville boutique's front window, her killer would have been able to watch virtually unnoticed as the beautiful, young blond woman turned off the lights and locked up around 8:45 p.m.

He was waiting for her outside. Gilmour, just 22, lived in the apartment upstairs. It was scarcely 15 metres from the store's entrance to her front door.

Did he follow her upstairs? Did he trick her? Did she invite him up? Did she know her killer? This was Dec. 20, 1983. To this day her death is still a mystery.

The only thing investigators know for sure is that her killer had struck before. Susan Tice, 45, had been murdered in much the same way – sexually assaulted and stabbed – four months earlier.

"Back then, homicide investigators were obviously aware of the similarities between the two murders. Single women living alone. Late in the evening. Attractive women for that matter. That kind of thing. But they didn't know for sure because they didn't have the magic of DNA, that it was the same killer," said Det. Sgt. Reg Pitts, who heads Toronto's cold case squad.

Pitts was a young officer working in 52 Division the night investigators received a 911 call that a young woman had been killed in her Yorkville apartment.

Gilmour's boyfriend had arrived, right on schedule around 9:20 p.m., to find the street-level door ajar.

He went inside, calling her name as he walked upstairs. No answer. He looked around her apartment, but she wasn't there. Yet the lights were on. He went back outside and over to the store. Dark and locked.

Now he was getting nervous. He went back inside to look again and this time noticed the bed duvet was drawn up over the pillows. He pulled it aside and found her.

Gilmour had been tied up, sexually assaulted and stabbed repeatedly. The fatal blow went through her heart, an autopsy later revealed.

"It was a brutal crime. A brutal crime scene," said Pitts. "I was just a young police officer at the time. I remember coming here that night. The place was swarming with homicide detectives. We searched this area far and wide trying to find the knife – unsuccessfully.

"Little did I know, 25 years later, I'd be taking up the cause again."

Just four months before Gilmour's slaying, on Aug. 17, Tice was found dead in her bedroom on the second floor of her Grace St. home in Toronto. There was no sign of forced entry. Like Gilmour, she had been sexually assaulted and stabbed repeatedly in the chest. The crime scenes were only a few kilometres apart.

The murders were officially linked through DNA in 2000, but investigators always suspected they were dealing with a serial predator.

The problem was the two women had nothing in common. Tice was a mother of four who had recently moved back to Toronto from Calgary after separating from her husband. She worked with disadvantaged children and had a nursing degree from McMaster University and a master's degree in social work from the University of Toronto. She had spent much of her marriage following her husband from job to job as he climbed the corporate ladder.

On Aug. 17, Tice's brother-in-law became worried after she didn't show up at a family gathering. He went to the home and noticed mail had piled up. Police believe she had been there a few days.

Gilmour, meanwhile, was a rising Toronto socialite. Her father, David, is the long-time partner of business tycoon Peter Munk.

She had dabbled in modelling but dreamed of a career in fashion design. While taking classes at a fashion school, Gilmour got her foot in the door by working at a posh Yorkville boutique, Robin's Knits.

"She created her own clothes from second-hand sources, so was very creative. Clever. I saw her as a fashion editor at some point. She oozed style," said Judith Tatar, one of Gilmour's best friends. "She was intensely funny. Very private. And she adored her brothers."

The day before her murder, Gilmour invited her two younger brothers – Sean, 13, and Kaelin, 11 – over for a sleepover. They spent the night just hanging out.

"It was something we did every two or three months," said Sean McCowan, now 39. "That was Erin. She was a lovely young woman, and a great big sister."

Investigators combed through the two women's social circles, hoping for the common thread. Nothing turned up. Detectives believe their suspect may have lived near Tice's home at the time of the slaying.

"Yorkville has more a set clientele or crowd. This is more of a family neighbourhood. Whoever killed Susan Tice would be able to walk around, unnoticed," said Pitts.

"They didn't know each other in life, but they were killed by the same man. You have to ask yourself: Are these the only two crimes this man committed? Likely not."

Title: Re: Erin Gilmour - December 20th, 1983 - Age 22 - Murdered - Toronto
Post by: Chris on October 30, 2009, 11:17:06 PM
This was posted by someone anonymously:

------------------------
I do not have much to contribute so I am submitting this anonymously in the hope that others who are better sleuths than I might find my thoughts helpful.

If you could post it on the Erin Gilmour and Susan Tice sites I would appreciate it.

I have always had a  heartfelt interest in the unsolved murder of Erin Gilmour. She, her mother and their nanny were neighbours of ours when Erin was a young girl living on Oriole Parkway. I shovelled their snow as a teenager. I just saw the postings that link DNA to the murder of Susan Tice and thank all who are actively pursuing these murders, both the police and independents.

My thought went to what links two single women about a ten minute drive apart? - that Erin liked Chinese food, that someone had Erin's unlisted number and that Erin's killer obviously knew where she lived and perhaps had her telephone number.

My thought goes to food delivery people and the area they may have covered. This would allow a killer to first meet their victim and then later stake out their residence - or call to either harass them or check if they were at home. As I recall in 1983, there was not identi-call, but I think that when you phoned for a delivery you gave them your phone number as well as your address. At the time Chinese food was a popular food for delivery in Toronto. I can't recall if at that time pizza had come to be popular.

Perhaps this avenue has already been explored and perhaps it is overly simplistic. If so, I apologize, but it is all that I have that might help and I do hope someone finds it helpful.
     
Title: Re: Erin Gilmour - December 20th, 1983 - Age 22 - Murdered - Toronto
Post by: Chris on October 30, 2009, 11:20:07 PM
That is an interesting theory. A delivery person could be right.

Title: Re: Erin Gilmour - December 20th, 1983 - Age 22 - Murdered - Toronto
Post by: Sleuth on October 31, 2009, 12:16:37 AM
thank you anonymously! the theory you put forward is pretty darn logical. Thanks for your thoughts and welcome!  :)
Title: Re: Erin Gilmour - December 20th, 1983 - Age 22 - Murdered - Toronto
Post by: Concerned on December 26, 2010, 06:20:57 PM
Homicide Squad
Unsolved Cold Case

Homicide: #28/1983
Date: August 17, 1983

Victims
Susan TICE
45/F

Homicide 28/83 - A mother of 4 who had just moved to Toronto from Calgary.   

Erin Harrison GILMOUR
22/F

Homicide 48/83 - Erin Gilmour was single and was employed at Robins Knits on a part-time basis.
Details of Investigation
SUSAN TICE was 45 years of age and the mother of 4 children. She was recently separated from her husband, had moved to Toronto from Calgary on July 9th, 1983, and was living alone.On Wednesday, August 17th, 1983, a relative of Susan's went to her address to check on her, since her family had been unable to contact her for several days. Susan's body was discovered in the upstairs bedroom, suffering from numerous stab wounds.

ERIN GILMOUR was 22 years of age, single and lived on Hazelton Avenue. On December 20th, 1983, at about 9:20 p.m., a friend of the deceased went to her home as pre-arranged that day.

On arriving at the premises, this male found the front door ajar. He entered the upstairs apartment and subsequently located the deceased in her bedroom.

Erin had just finished work at approximately 8:45 p.m. at Robins Knits.

These two homicides are linked through DNA. Both women are believed to have been killed by the same man.
Suspects
UNKNOWN
Additional Media

Susan Tice's new home that she had just purchased   (PIC)
This is the house that Susan Tice was found murdered   
Title: Re: Erin Gilmour - December 20th, 1983 - Age 22 - Murdered - Toronto
Post by: leonagleant on February 16, 2013, 11:58:32 PM
A shame that the killer of these two women and probably more has not been caught. He would be an older man by now probably in his sixties. Less likely to be a killer still, but what secret past he's been hiding al these years.

Family of Yorkville murder victim offers $150,000 reward
 

Joshua Freeman, cp24.com
Published Thursday, Dec. 20, 2012 1:32PM EST
Last Updated Thursday, Dec. 20, 2012 1:41PM EST


The family of a young woman murdered at her Yorkville apartment nearly three decades ago has announced a $150,000 reward to help solve her murder.
 
Dec. 20 marks the 29th anniversary since Erin Gilmour was found dead at her Hazelton Avenue apartment. The 22-year-old aspiring fashion designer had been sexually assaulted and stabbed.
 
Her murder was later linked through DNA evidence to the Grace Street murder of another woman four months earlier, 45-year-old Susan Tice. Police say the same person killed both women.
 



Photos
 



Erin Gilmour is pictured in this police handout photo. Gilmour was sexually assaulted and stabbed to death in her Yorkville apartment in 1983.
 
Now Sean Gilmour, Erin’s younger brother, says his family is offering $150,000 to anyone who can help solve the case, in addition to the $50,000 reward already offered by police.
 
Sean told CP24 Wednesday that the holidays are a particularly difficult time for the family.
 
“She was a fantastic sister to me and my younger brother,” Sean said. “She was just starting out in life. She had just recently moved out of the house and had her career and her whole life to live.
 
"And unfortunately that was taken away from all of us.”
 
Anyone with information in the case is asked to contact Toronto police or call Crime Stoppers anonymously at 1-800-222-TIPS (8477).
.

Read more: http://www.cp24.com/news/family-of-yorkville-murder-victim-offers-150-000-reward-1.1086992#ixzz2L8T64gmB


Title: Re: Erin Gilmour - December 20th, 1983 - Age 22 - Murdered - Toronto
Post by: jobo on February 17, 2013, 03:12:17 AM
I wonder too, leonagleant.  Are we to believe this killer stopped killing in 1983 or.. did he move... or die?
The murders of Susan Tice and Erin Gilmour are never far from my mind, Toronto is my hometown.....they were both murdered in the same year 1983, and they lived fairly close to each other.  They have DNA to connect the two murders.

There was a topic on this forum recently regarding the soaring Police costs...I think there is many Cops sitting at their precincts just waiting to retire.  They are the ones that should have Susan and Erin's files on their desks.....these two crimes MUST be solvable.   
They have DNA to connect the crimes....both women lived fairly close to each other and they were both murdered in 1983.  Lots of clues, so I wonder where those files are right now?  In the Cold case section or on someone's desk?

The idea it could be a delivery person is a good one to check out.  Or even just a clerk at a store both women would have shopped at.   I believe they were watched or followed.

It is unsolved such as these two crimes that really does make me wonder why not?

I just thought.....what if the killer went to the States?  How much cross-checking Canadian DNA is done with America?  Toronto is not that far from NewYork State.
Title: Re: Erin Gilmour - December 20th, 1983 - Age 22 - Murdered - Toronto
Post by: leonagleant on February 17, 2013, 05:23:12 PM
He may well have left town or might have continued killing as there are many women who lived alone killed in Toronto over the years, or he might have got married and stopped killing if that's possible. I'm not convinced that there is a connection between the two women though that is possible re the idea of a delivery man. I tend to think of a man wandering the streets, following women, peering through windows and determining who lives at home alone. The ages of the women are not similar so he was opportunistic rather than targetting similar women. It would be great if we had a national DNA bank of at least all convicted criminals if not all men so we could solve these cold cases. If he has already passed away, it's remotely possible it was someone like Allan Craig MacDonald with a history of break-ins and murders:

"MacDonald travelled the area between Brantford, Woodstock, Hamilton and Toronto. He towed a 24-foot Prowler trailer, cream with a green stripe. His was a life of business break-ins and thefts."

http://pbdba.lfpress.com/cgi-bin/publish.cgi?p=122447&x=articles&s=societe
Title: Re: Erin Gilmour - December 20th, 1983 - Age 22 - Murdered - Toronto
Post by: GoArmy36 on April 17, 2013, 01:05:07 PM
I watched some documentary not long ago about police thinking that Paul Bernardo had something to do with Erin and Susans death.  Paul denied this.  Seeing he and Mr. Russel Williams were in University at that time, and they were good friends, it would not be much of a stretch to think that Russel Williams could be the perp.  Seeing that the DNA has been tested, and the police know that the same person murdered both of these women, I wonder if they will test it against Russel Williams.  Just a thought..
Title: Re: Erin Gilmour - December 20th, 1983 - Age 22 - Murdered - Toronto
Post by: leonagleant on April 17, 2013, 11:50:14 PM
Russell Williams would have been 20 years old at the time, Bernardo only 19 in 1983. Not too likely. Average serial killer is approx 29 with first murder. Of course anything is possible but there are so many more serial killers in prison, dead or at large than the infamous ones whose names we know. Many more whose names we don't memorize but who wreak havoc in ending lives and destroying families.
Title: Re: Erin Gilmour - December 20th, 1983 - Age 22 - Murdered - Toronto
Post by: jobo on April 18, 2013, 02:50:32 AM
When they arrested Williams they did say they were checking old murder cases wherever Williams had been throughout his life.  That statement lead me to think they would've checked against the DNA evidence from Erin Gilmour (and Susan Tice's) murder.  At that time I was also hoping they checked into the murders of Margaret McWilliams and Elizabeth Bain, two more unsolved.
 I believe the Police say that the same perp killed Erin Gilmour and Susan Tice (they have DNA).

I had said something about this back when Williams was arrested, as he did go to school in Toronto (was it Upper Canada College?  can't quite recall, but I am pretty sure he went there as a young man and then onto College in Scarborough). 
Title: Re: Erin Gilmour - December 20th, 1983 - Age 22 - Murdered - Toronto
Post by: anonymous2 on November 09, 2013, 06:25:56 PM
I am the "anonymous" who submitted the delivery person theory. I check in now and again to this site and appreciate the heartfelt concern of contributors. It still troubles me that the police have not found the murderer and obviously it deeply troubles the family who have posted a reward. I just wanted to let readers know that years ago I did submit my theory to the police with my contact information just so they didn't think that I was a nutbar or the guilty party. I did not receive an acknowledgement but I assume that the police received my message and that they read these posts and have exhausted the delivery person theory. I can't think of any other possible link that Susan and Erin might have. Other than being both white. they were two very different looking women of different ages. That got me to thinking that the murderer was perhaps not that discerning when it came to white women, and so perhaps the murderer was of another ethnicity. I see these days where they can trace your family roots from DNA. I imagine if that is the case, the police have done this; and so I wonder why they would not have released that information. Perhaps a reader more knowledgeable than me can enlighten me. I would appreciate that. It still does strike me that Susan was new to the city and perhaps was ordering delivery and that Erin also liked delivery. How else would the killer have gotten Erin's unlisted phone number? Oh well. I guess the police are doing all they can do.  I can still picture Erin as a very little girl with her blonde hair all bundled up walking through the snow with her nanny and how kind her mother always was to me especially when a snow storm had dumped far more than I could shovel in one go. I do hope for Erin's family that the police soon find her murderer. Sadly, I was also a neighbour and friend of Nancy Eaton and her mother in Toronto. Nancy's murderer is known, of course. The last I heard he was declared "sane and cured" and is free on the streets, ironically near where I now live. I trust that Erin and Susan's cases are receiving all of the police attention that they deserve and my heart goes out to their family and friends.
Title: Re: Erin Gilmour - December 20th, 1983 - Age 22 - Murdered - Toronto
Post by: jobo on February 20, 2014, 04:33:56 AM
This month's Reader's Digest has an article regarding this Unsolved murder of Erin Gilmour.  Susan Tice's murder is also mentioned.  Same DNA in both murders.
Title: Re: Erin Gilmour - December 20th, 1983 - Age 22 - Murdered - Toronto
Post by: joojoo on February 20, 2014, 09:35:25 PM
These two cases outside of the same perp DNA also have a link in that both women had fairly recent moves.  If Erin had an unlisted telephone number this may be significant.  Who would have knowledge of this---telephone installer,  cable television installer, store delivery people, anywhere you need to give out a telephone number for service including food which was mentioned by "anonymous".  Also stores where you might order something and they contact you when it comes in, dentist office, doctors office, hospital etc.  Kensington Market is close by so maybe this is a connection as well. Hope these help.  jmo   
Title: Re: Erin Gilmour - December 20th, 1983 - Age 22 - Murdered - Toronto
Post by: jellybean on February 21, 2014, 11:16:33 AM
JooJoo.  Do you mean that both of these women had recently moved into their apartments?  If so, perhaps it was someone connected to  local Movers??
jb
Title: Re: Erin Gilmour - December 20th, 1983 - Age 22 - Murdered - Toronto
Post by: Annastaisha on February 21, 2014, 02:12:38 PM
Property Managers or realtors could be a possibility too
Title: Re: Erin Gilmour - December 20th, 1983 - Age 22 - Murdered - Toronto
Post by: jellybean on February 22, 2014, 02:29:18 PM
It is believed the killer lived somewhere in between the two victim residences.

Here is another  fascinating piece about the two crimes.
http://www.cancrime.com/2013/08/16/30-years-later-is-serial-killer-still-on-the-loose/

jb